MBA while working?

[gerbera]

Anybody here taking MBA while working?
What made you decide to pursue MBA?
What are the advantages and disadvantages?
UP Diliman, Ateneo GSB, or DLSU? Why?

Help please! Thanks!

[tennisace]

MBA while working?

WHY??? What for?

Spend all that time and money to add three initials after your name that supposedly entitles you to a title and salary with snob appeal so that you can build somebody else's company and make somebody else rich?
Doesn't make sense to me.

[omeng]

Maybe, gerbera wants to know how to run others business instead of his/her own. Just a thought. :D

[ako si..]

im currently working while taking my MBA @ DLSU - GSB. im going on my 1st yr 2nd term. so far, medyo basic pa ang inaaral, pre mba courses pa, medyo magaan pa. 1 case study and 1 reaction paper every week. every sat lang kasi class ko.

why am i taking MBA? for career improvement, and of course self improvement na rin. mahirap pag stagnant na ang utak eh.

advantages, careerwise it helps a lot, syempre bukod sa performance if you'e a degree holder it's really a plus. you also get to meet a lot of people and be abreast with the current happenings/events/techniques and strategies in the business world. disadvantage, alot of sacrifice lalo na sa oras, andyan na uli *** researches, group meetings, homeworks, exams. chaka nde rin biro ang expenses, tuition fees, books syempre allowance mo pag kakain sa school and gimiks on the side with your classmates.

[tennisace]

im currently working while taking my MBA @ DLSU - GSB. im going on my 1st yr 2nd term. so far, medyo basic pa ang inaaral, pre mba courses pa, medyo magaan pa. 1 case study and 1 reaction paper every week. every sat lang kasi class ko.

why am i taking MBA? for career improvement, and of course self improvement na rin. mahirap pag stagnant na ang utak eh.

advantages, careerwise it helps a lot, syempre bukod sa performance if you'e a degree holder it's really a plus. you also get to meet a lot of people and be abreast with the current happenings/events/techniques and strategies in the business world. disadvantage, alot of sacrifice lalo na sa oras, andyan na uli *** researches, group meetings, homeworks, exams. chaka nde rin biro ang expenses, tuition fees, books syempre allowance mo pag kakain sa school and gimiks on the side with your classmates.

So basically, it's spending all that time and money to add three initials after your name that supposedly entitles you to a title and salary with snob appeal so that you can build somebody else's company and make somebody else rich.

If self-improvement and brain activity is what you're after, there are better and cheaper alternatives.

No knock on MBAs, but the most successful business founders and owners do not hold MBA degrees, some are even college or high school dropouts.

Given the choice of starting and building a business versus getting an MBA to get a higher pay and the snob appeal of having these initials attached to your name while working for somebody else, I would choose the business without hesitation. No offense intended, but I just think that the motivation for coveting these initials are born of the inherent human desire for status. Alexander the Great was no MBA. He was out there on the battlefield in the frontlines with his warriors getting the job done. British General Charles Cornwallis was an MBA. He sat on his horse a mile behind the frontlines surrounded by his officers not far from his portable luxury living room. A classic armchair general and backseat driver. But then again, that's just me. I understand that some people prefer the predictability of a job than the unpredictability of building a business.

[gerbera]

Thanks for your comments, tennisace, but we'd like to hear about the advatages and disadvantages more from those who are already taking up MBA.

Thanks anyway.

[tennisace]

Oh, sorry. If you didn’t catch it in my posts then allow me to be explicit:

Advantages:

-Better pay
-Higher position
-Gold-plated status

Disadvantages:

-Time
-Money
-Doesn’t change the fact that you’re still building someone else’s business and making someone else rich
-----------------------------------
Now if you’re intending to pursue, or are currently pursuing, an MBA and you own your business, then that’s a different story. It’ll be good for you and your business, plus, if you set it up so that your business pays for your “key man” education, then you get yourself a nice deductible business expense. No need to be an MBA to figure that one out.

Pardon me for crashing your MBA party. I realize that I am not qualified to be in this thread so it wouldn't bother me if my posts are ignored and/or disregarded. I just took it upon myself to inject my thoughts. My bad.

[rabbaddal]

Ako, gerbera, nag MBA. I am also a working for a company and am a sideline entrepreneur. Your chances of succeeding in your chosen field will depend on the right balance of a lot of different variables. There’s nothing that conclusively proves that being an entrepreneur will make a person better off than an MBA-educated company worker. A business consulting partner in SGV with an MBA, for example, can sincerely claim to be as fulfilled as an owner of an exporting company, who himself / herself may also have an MBA. There’s also nothing strange about working to make corporate shareholders rich if you yourself become rich in the process and if you are happy with and excel in what you do.

To answer your questions directly:

Anybody here taking MBA while working? – I took my MBA full time but our school also had a program for working students called the executive MBA (EMBA).

What made you decide to pursue MBA? – Initially I was into marketing and I wanted to get more in-depth education in other fields such as finance and operations.

What are the advantages and disadvantages?

ADVANTAGES:
(1) get to be exposed to more aspects of business – finance, operations, marketing, etc.
(2) get to expand your professional network
(3) depending on the program / school, get to work directly with people from different backgrounds and learn from them their experiences
(4) learn to work with people that you don’t necessarily agree / get along with

DISADVANTAGES:
(1) more suitable for people with 5+ years of work experience and working in supervisory roles (unless you’re a consultant / investment banker)
(2) time and costs
(3) doesn’t really ensure your promotion, but a good MBA alumni network can help you advance your career
(4) degree doesn’t prove by itself that you’re good at something

UP Diliman, Ateneo GSB, or DLSU? Why? – That’s hard to say. Each school has its own strengths and weaknesses, depending on your goals. You’ll have to do your own research on this. Ateneo’s Regis MBA and AIM’s EMBA are fit for mid-level managers with 5 or so years of experience. Their alumni networks are good because their graduates have already accomplished some level of career advancement. You also stand to learn more soft skills because your classmates are more professionally mature. However, you can only benefit if you yourself have a similar level of experience and contribute to the class. These courses are not for entry-level people. Consider also studying abroad. Some schools in the APEC and ASEAN regions offer scholarships to students from member countries. Try to research on these scholarships.

If you’re still young and have only a few years work experience under your belt, it’s better to focus on developing your technical skills first before pursuing an MBA. What are you doing right now and what would you like to get into? It might be better for you to earn an MS / MA is a specific field (ex. finance, economics, marketing communications, computer science, etc.) as a stepping stone.

[gerbera]

Thanks, rabbaddal.

I found out that taking an Asia-Pacific scholarship is not only cumbersome but it can also be expensive. I also don't have enough dollars for AIM so I narrowed my choices down to the three schools.

I took up communications as my undergrad degree. I'm currently into marketing and would like to pursue it as my career.

Since you mentioned it, I might consider the Regis program of Ateneo since I've earned 4 years of work experience anyway. Plus it looks like it can be finished in less trimesters than the standard program. If time and resources would allow, then it would be great to take up a specific MA/MS. Unfortunately, it would be more practical for me to take the all-encompassing MBA. Although taking some units of MA in Management in UP Manila might help. It's not that expensive anyhow.

Thanks!

[omeng]

Gotcha :D

[rabbaddal]

Thanks, rabbaddal.

I found out that taking an Asia-Pacific scholarship is not only cumbersome but it can also be expensive. I also don't have enough dollars for AIM so I narrowed my choices down to the three schools.

I took up communications as my undergrad degree. I'm currently into marketing and would like to pursue it as my career.

Since you mentioned it, I might consider the Regis program of Ateneo since I've earned 4 years of work experience anyway. Plus it looks like it can be finished in less trimesters than the standard program. If time and resources would allow, then it would be great to take up a specific MA/MS. Unfortunately, it would be more practical for me to take the all-encompassing MBA. Although taking some units of MA in Management in UP Manila might help. It's not that expensive anyhow.

Thanks!

Would it be possible for your employer to sponsor your MBA? You might be required to sign a bond though but a lot of people would find such an arrangement a good deal. Baka pumayag pa silang bayaran ang mas mahal na tuition sa EMBA ng AIM.

Yes, since you already have 4 years experience, it probably makes more sense to get a little bit more experience and go ahead with pursuing an MBA.

[tennisace]

:lol: I knew it was only a matter of time when the real MBA showed up.

By the same token, there’s nothing that conclusively proves that being an MBA-educated company worker will make a person better off than an entrepreneur. I agree that there’s nothing strange about working to make corporate shareholders rich, yada yada yada. There's also nothing strange about glorified employees getting a heavier corporate leash. When they yank, better come running.


Rab, NYU, right?
----------------------------------

I don't have the academic credentials like my friend Rab here. I did make it to Wharton but it was a short-lived affair. I lingered at Harvard for a little bit, long enough for me to take home a couple t-shirts, a coffee mug and a crimson warm-up suit courtesy of my tennis hitting partner James Blake.

[anonymouse]

Personally, I think taking up an MBA course would only benefit people who having an MBA degree under their belt is required for their work and for those who would or who is currently an entrepreneur. During class discussions, one would know what mistakes did one person make in his workplace or in his business so one could avoid the same mistakes if given the same situation. One could also appreciate and learn other facets of business like financial, accounting, and IT.

For me, having an MBA doesn't assure that one could be successful because nothing beats hands-on experience but it could be a tool that one could use to succeed in one's career or in one's business. Plus one could also broaden his network of contacts and friends that he/she might use for business.

I'm currently considering to take up an MBA course probably in next year's time. Umm.. What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of Ateneo, DLSU, and UP's program for MBA..?

[rabbaddal]

Personally, I think taking up an MBA course would only benefit people who having an MBA degree under their belt is required for their work and for those who would or who is currently an entrepreneur. During class discussions, one would know what mistakes did one person make in his workplace or in his business so one could avoid the same mistakes if given the same situation. One could also appreciate and learn other facets of business like financial, accounting, and IT.

For me, having an MBA doesn't assure that one could be successful because nothing beats hands-on experience but it could be a tool that one could use to succeed in one's career or in one's business. Plus one could also broaden his network of contacts and friends that he/she might use for business.

I'm currently considering to take up an MBA course probably in next year's time. Umm.. What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of Ateneo, DLSU, and UP's program for MBA..?

Hmmmm….mukhang wala masyadong may interesado sa EMBA ng AIM. Bakit kaya? :D

Seriously, I find that AIM’s EMBA is well-suited for working MBA students because the student body is composed of experienced and accomplished managers. There’s a lot of opportunity for students to learn from each other, contribute to the learning process and build good professional networks. However, the admissions requirements can be a barrier to some applicants – 6 years work experience with at least 3 years at the supervisory level. And the costs can be another burden, although some students are sponsored by their employers. Check the website:

http://www.aim.edu/schools/programpreview.asp?id=133

Alternatively, you could also check out Ateneo’s Regis MBA. The supervisory requirements are not as precise as AIM’s EMBA so it might be a little easier to get in. Large organizations like ADB, WG&A, Alsons and IBM Phils have signed agreements with AGSB to send their promising mid-level managers to the Regis MBA program for training, so your classmates there would probably be professionally mature and therefore a good source for cross-learning and networking. Here’s the link:

http://www.gsb.ateneo.edu/index.php?p=367

[jazzy]

I will consider also the location of the school, imagine if you're working in Makati and school is in UP. You may end up not finishing it at all.


_________________________________________
Megatipid.com - ang Website ng mga Wais!
www.megatipid.com

[gerbera]

Rabbaddal: My personal biases are leaning towards AIM but my bank account is disagreeing violently. I haven't asked my current employer on the possibility of sponsoring my MBA. Baka sa next employer nalang kasi malabo yung sa ngayon. Haha!

Anonymouse: That's still something we would have to research on. It's hard to judge based on the course descriptions. Better to hear first-hand from the students/graduates. Let's hope someone who knows better could post here what the fortes are of the said schools.

Jazzy: I totally agree. Inasmuch as I'd like to be loyal to UP, I'm afraid the commute would sooner or later kill me.

Aside from the required years of work experience, what exactly are the differences among AGSB's MBA programs (standard, regis, and middle managers)? Is regis just a "quickie version" of the standard? Is it correct to say that the middle managers program is the most "senior" of all 3?

[rabbaddal]

Aside from the required years of work experience, what exactly are the differences among AGSB's MBA programs (standard, regis, and middle managers)? Is regis just a "quickie version" of the standard? Is it correct to say that the middle managers program is the most "senior" of all 3?


The curriculum for the standard and middle manager MBA programs were originally designed by AGSB, and are implemented / taught using AGSB’s own criteria / standards. In other words, the intellectual property for standard and middle manager programs belongs entirely with AGSB.

The Regis MBA is different because the curriculum was developed by Regis University, and is implemented / taught by AGSB under the supervision of Regis U using Regis’ criteria / standards. The process from recruitment of instructors to delivery of courses is done separately from AGSB’s proprietary MBA programs. And large companies that hire AGSB to train their senior managers prefer Regis over standard or middle manager programs.

As far as target audience is concerned (middle manager vs. Regis), it's hard to tell from the description in the website. Both require almost the same minimum no. of years experience but it may be different based on those who actually enroll. You might want to ask AGSB about this directly, especially when it comes to the subtle differences.

[omeng]

How true that after taking this MBA, you are afraid to go full blast as an entrepreneur?

[KuyaDanny]

Well, if you are anything like me, you will have plenty of debt and no savings after an MBA. I couldn't go full blast even if I wanted.

[rabbaddal]

How true that after taking this MBA, you are afraid to go full blast as an entrepreneur?

Attitude-wise, it doesn’t really have an effect. Especially in foreign business schools, most students nowadays are professionally mature with 5+ years experience so they’re pretty much set on their ways as to if and when they’ll put up their own company. Some of them are already entrepreneurs even before taking their MBA. The ones Kuya Danny referred to are those who want to save up and pay for their student loans first before they go off on their own.

[gerbera]

The curriculum for the standard and middle manager MBA programs were originally designed by AGSB, and are implemented / taught using AGSB’s own criteria / standards. In other words, the intellectual property for standard and middle manager programs belongs entirely with AGSB.

The Regis MBA is different because the curriculum was developed by Regis University, and is implemented / taught by AGSB under the supervision of Regis U using Regis’ criteria / standards. The process from recruitment of instructors to delivery of courses is done separately from AGSB’s proprietary MBA programs. And large companies that hire AGSB to train their senior managers prefer Regis over standard or middle manager programs.

As far as target audience is concerned (middle manager vs. Regis), it's hard to tell from the description in the website. Both require almost the same minimum no. of years experience but it may be different based on those who actually enroll. You might want to ask AGSB about this directly, especially when it comes to the subtle differences.

Oh I see. Clearer now. Cool. Thanks!

KuyaD: Eek! Sorry to hear that. I'm sure the right time will come for you to set up your biz.

[omeng]

But those entrepreneurs that took MBA program are now afraid to take risk, right? They changed attitude on how to deal business. Always on the safe side and that's why they don't grow or reach to their maximum potential.

MBA... is it really a science on doing your own business or a science that build someone else business?

My point is, those people who took MBA are not afraid of taking the risk in the expense of other people business but very afraid of taking risk with their own expense. Please correct me if i'm right.. eheste.. wrong.

[rabbaddal]

/\/\

I don’t think it’s quite right to say that MBA-educated entrepreneurs play it safe to the point that they can’t / don’t want to grow their business anymore. Most of my entrepreneur classmates are currently into high-growth businesses to the point that they were able to raise venture capital financing. Maybe they take more precautions before making big decisions, like doing more thorough due diligence, performing additional layers of analysis or considering more options. But that hasn’t slowed down turn-around time that much since they work long hours and use productivity-enhancing technology to make well-informed decisions within a reasonably fast timeframe.

[soulontap]

A good MBA program will make you think better. (Either as an entrepreneur or working for somebody.) You will learn different frameworks on how to tackle a problem.

Say someone asked you "How can I increase profit?" Using a decision tree framework, you could break things down into the ff:

----Increase No. of Units Sold
---- Increase Sales ---
Profit ---- Increase Price

---- Decrease Cost

Profit is a function of Sales minus Cost. You could increase profit by increasing sales or reducing cost. To increase sales you can Increase the number of units sold or increase the seling price. So on and so forth.

If you are familiar with the idea of frameworks, you'll be able to deduce that the current war between Lebanon and Israel will not stop even if there is a ceasefire. The Israelites based their thinking on Judeo-Christian concepts while the latter are Muslims. Both will have to agree on a common framework before the war will cease. (Notice how all the international leaders are asking both countries to sit down and agree on a common terms of reference.)

Going to MBA doesn't ensure you'll always be right. But if you learn the lessons well, more often than not, you'll based your decisions on something logical as against an opinion.

[omeng]

Well, in my world it says otherwise. Besides, consider the resources of your entrep classmates. Definitely, they have the money to sustain their business. So, I don’t think it’s quite right to say that most of your entrepreneur classmates are currently into high-growth businesses because they took that program.

And by the way, most MBA people I know are focus on dealing problems not on solutions. Different schools but the same teaching? Why is that so?

==========================================================

An interesting to read...

http://www.wiley.com/college/man/schermerhorn332879/site/student/cp/virtual.htm

COMPARISON OF AMERICAN MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO AMERICAN NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

"Through our research comparing American Management 300 Students versus American Non-Management Students we found that the results were relatively similar. The average score for the management students was a 7 and a 6.82 for the non-management students, leading us to conclude that both groups use analytical and intuitive approaches in decision making but they both place more emphasis on intuition".


==========================================================

And another one.. http://www.vault.com/messages/MBA/MBA21438.html

"I have heard a lot of the threads talking about Harvard and other top 20 business schools. I have even seen a lot of top 75 business guides, but I probably will not score high enough on my GMAT to consider these at this time. Also the cost is generally prohibitive in attending private business schools with a range in the New York area of about $14,000-$22,000 Per Year for two years. Add that on to lost opportunity cost and many of us wonder why we should pursue a MBA degree at all. After all, if one doesn't attend a top 30 school, and there are more than 200 schools offering MBA programs, salaries often start out between $45,000 - $60,000. And most of the graduates that are earning these salaries already have about 4 years of work experience.

So, in reality, most of these new MBA would be getting the same salary or slightly more without their MBA degrees. Let’s look at the cost of getting an MBA. Hofstra University, annual cost of $17,000 (includes, books, fees, tuition) X 2 years = $34,000 + interest = approx $39,000 debt. The alternative is to keep working at say $50,000 a year minus taxes= $32,500 X 2 = $65,000 + investment appreciation of say $25,000 in that period from stock market gains. So the Non MBA could have $90,000 in cash at the time the MBA is $39,000 in debt. Doesn't look very good for the MBA. I didn't include living costs like rent, because both groups would have to pay these items and probably assume more debt, so the difference would not change between the two. The opportunity of going for the MBA is equal to the lost opportunity Salary + the debt assumed in gaining the degree. So the cost in this example of getting the MBA is $39,000 + $90,000 = $129,000.

So the MBA would have to make $129,000 extra money to catch up with the non-MBA. Being MBA salaries are only about $10,000-$20,000 higher than non MBA is can be seen that in would take a long time. Also, the MBA, approaching the 31% tax bracket on federal income tax, higher 4% state tax, 8% Social security, fica, so his actual gain above the non-MBA is reduced by 44% for tax paid, and another 8% if the money is spent on sales tax. So the MBA's $10K-20K advantage is reduced to $5,000-$10,000 per year. Meanwhile the Non-MBA's investment of $90,000 may return an additional 20% annually with no tax if he doesn't sell. That means the Non-MBA actually is earning more now by about $10,000. And as the Non-MBA investment grows, the amount the Non-MBA earns over the MBA will grow as well. So the MBA is not necessarily better off money wise.

As one immigrant who was a millionaire told his son, he didn't want his son to work in the same business and make millions, he wanted his son to have a better life and a title such as Lawyer, CPA or MBA even if he didn't earn as much because of the presumed social prestige, not economic. On another note I worked in one place in NYC where half the 40 sales people are earning over $80,000 per year, with under 2 years experience, and many without 4 year degrees. These people spend no money on college and have a lot of cash, and will be far richer than those of us that pursue MBA's and start out at lower salaries. The only hope for the MBA is if the non-MBA doesn't invest his money and the MBA eventually earns more and works until he is 65 years old, than it might pay."

[rabbaddal]

Well, in my world it says otherwise. Besides, consider the resources of your entrep classmates. Definitely, they have the money to sustain their business. So, I don’t think it’s quite right to say that most of your entrepreneur classmates are currently into high-growth businesses because they took that program.


I did not say they get into high growth businesses because they took an MBA. I said entrepreneurs still take risks and aim for growth even after taking an MBA. This answers your earlier statement that they supposedly "are now afraid to take risks" and "they don't grow".

As for their ability to come up with resources, that is a different matter. ;)


And by the way, most MBA people I know are focus on dealing problems not on solutions. Different schools but the same teaching? Why is that so?

The founder and managing owner of PEX has an MBA. Isn’t PEX a solution to a problem?

[lehboy]

Quite an interesting topic, am an entrepreneur myself, with a business that's already stable. However, in 2 to 3 years time I plan to migrate, and take up my MBA abroad.

The weird thing is, I know that growing my business here will be more rewarding in the long run, but at the same time I want to take up further studies abroad and experience corporate life in a different environment. Worst thing that could happen is I fail there, and go back here to the Philippines and start anew.

[omeng]

Hmmm... we are just playing our own words, amigo. Anyway, just to get going, if you will just re-read my previous post on that "don't grow thingy" and digest the context. To clarify, yes they do grow, but will not reach the summit. Yes, they do take the risk, a calculated risk "kuno". Hope this time you got my point.

Good to hear that the managing owner of Pex has an MBA, but what is this solution to a problem? of what? You see, you are now focusing on the problems.. Just kiddin' :D . To clarify also on that particular statement, it's about the execution for that solution.

lehboy, iiwan mo si gf? :D

Well, as my favorite quote, "Why walk on that ladder when you can have your own ladder?".

[rabbaddal]

Hmmm... we are just playing our own words, amigo. Anyway, just to get going, if you will just re-read my previous post on that "don't grow thingy" and digest the context. To clarify, yes they do grow, but will not reach the summit. Yes, they do take the risk, a calculated risk "kuno". Hope this time you got my point.


I got your point and the context. That’s why I say I don’t agree with you when you posted that after taking their MBAs, they are afraid to take risks, “don’t grow” and “don’t reach the summit”. Perhaps you could give some specific examples of such instances and we’ll see if it holds true in the general context.

Good to hear that the managing owner of Pex has an MBA, but what is this solution to a problem? of what? You see, you are now focusing on the problems.. Just kiddin' :D . To clarify also on that particular statement, it's about the execution for that solution.


What problem? It depends on the person framing it; there could be many problem-solution combinations. Since PEX is a service, it shouldn’t be hard to find at least one combination. OK, I’ll think of one.

PROBLEM: Need to make money but can't charge for membership.
SOLUTION: Sell internet advertisement space.

As for “execution”, just look at the top of the website to see if they were able to sell space for ads.

[omeng]

( Commercial )

After several years of experimenting.. Finally, NASA scientists and astronauts came up with the solution (?) to a problem: A ball pen (INK) that will defy the zero gravity in space.

While doing that long experimentation, Russian cosmonaut are just using pencil.

[omeng]

Perhaps you could give some specific examples of such instances and we’ll see if it holds true in the general context.

I don't know how to do that. Just sharing my first hand experiences with some MBA holder I deal with. All discussion but no execution. An infamous alibi not to take the risk, "Let's calculate the risk." Then after that calculation, we will end up empty handed. :D

Cencia na sa thread starter.. wala na sa hulog ang pinag-uusapan yata. ;)

[lehboy]

Omeng, nah won't leave her, actually she's the one pushing me to go abroad, (sawa na sa Pilipinas e), well for me I love my country, kaya lang ako naman I also want to try something different. =)

My take on this issue is - it really depends on the person. I've been fortunate to see the two sides of the coin.

My college friends all pursued corporate careers, most of them already on their way to the top positions (at such a young age). On the other hand, most of my high school batchmates are entrepreneurs. Majority of them work for their family businesses, if not run their own business.

What one group has, the other lacks. But I think the most important thing that the corporate man lacks that the entrepreneur has is the capacity for taking risks. I've seen most of my high school buddies fail on one or two business opportunities, but that didn't deter them from finding new ones.

I'm not saying that the college friends don't want to take risks, it's just that we've been taught that way. Get good grades while you're in school so that you'll land a good job. I've talked to a lot of them, and they mention that they do want to start their own business - but there are factors that prevent them from doing so like startup capital, lost opportunity cost of having the job, job security etc.

Either way, I'm sure that both groups will be successful in the future. Kaya lang ang palagay ko mauuna talaga yung mga negosyante/entrepreneur.

[rabbaddal]

I don't know how to do that. Just sharing my first hand experiences with some MBA holder I deal with. All discussion but no execution. An infamous alibi not to take the risk, "Let's calculate the risk." Then after that calculation, we will end up empty handed. :D


Calculating risk, I can understand. But losing appetite for risk and not aspiring for / reaching the summit, maybe for that person you know. I’m confident that there are enough MBA entrepreneurs out there who take risks, albeit calculated ones, and aspire for / reach their summits. MBA won’t hinder a person from doing that. Otherwise, PEX wouldn’t be what it is today.

[tennisace]

A good MBA program will make you think better. (Either as an entrepreneur or working for somebody.) You will learn different frameworks on how to tackle a problem.

Say someone asked you "How can I increase profit?" Using a decision tree framework, you could break things down into the ff:

----Increase No. of Units Sold
---- Increase Sales ---
Profit ---- Increase Price

---- Decrease Cost

Profit is a function of Sales minus Cost. You could increase profit by increasing sales or reducing cost. To increase sales you can Increase the number of units sold or increase the seling price. So on and so forth.

If you are familiar with the idea of frameworks, you'll be able to deduce that the current war between Lebanon and Israel will not stop even if there is a ceasefire. The Israelites based their thinking on Judeo-Christian concepts while the latter are Muslims. Both will have to agree on a common framework before the war will cease. (Notice how all the international leaders are asking both countries to sit down and agree on a common terms of reference.)

Going to MBA doesn't ensure you'll always be right. But if you learn the lessons well, more often than not, you'll based your decisions on something logical as against an opinion.


A good MBA program CAN (not necessarily “WILL”) make you think better. More due diligence, additional analysis, considering more options, as rabb says. But thinking better, in my non-MBA opinion, depends largely on the individual. Sometimes, too much education can lead one to over-think and over-analyze even the simplest of issues. We've already seen some of examples of it in these forums. I was amused years ago when my MBA boss, who I thought was smart, admitted she dreaded balancing her checkbook. I had to pause and think when a former co-employee (a Harvard MBA grad whose father owned the company and was put to work by Daddy to get his feet wet) studied analytical Lotus worksheets highlighted with different colored pens, only to come up with the same conclusions that I came up with two days before he did. On the flipside, there are some MBA grads that I look up to, particularly the two SCORE mentors I had and with whom I remain in contact with after all these years. This idea of “framework” does make sense, but perhaps the “decision tree framework” example is overly simplistic. Answering the question of increasing profit as illustrated above appears to be a product of common business sense. The term “common framework” notwithstanding, reaching an accord, in its purest sense, is nothing more than a compromise that establishes an acceptable situation for the parties involved. Perhaps an MBA-bred “decision tree” can provide logical branches, but humans being as they are, sometimes a stick will do trick just as well as a tree.

[tennisace]

Well, in my world it says otherwise. Besides, consider the resources of your entrep classmates. Definitely, they have the money to sustain their business. So, I don’t think it’s quite right to say that most of your entrepreneur classmates are currently into high-growth businesses because they took that program.

And by the way, most MBA people I know are focus on dealing problems not on solutions. Different schools but the same teaching? Why is that so?

==========================================================

An interesting to read...

http://www.wiley.com/college/man/schermerhorn332879/site/student/cp/virtual.htm

COMPARISON OF AMERICAN MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO AMERICAN NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

"Through our research comparing American Management 300 Students versus American Non-Management Students we found that the results were relatively similar. The average score for the management students was a 7 and a 6.82 for the non-management students, leading us to conclude that both groups use analytical and intuitive approaches in decision making but they both place more emphasis on intuition".


==========================================================

And another one.. http://www.vault.com/messages/MBA/MBA21438.html

"I have heard a lot of the threads talking about Harvard and other top 20 business schools. I have even seen a lot of top 75 business guides, but I probably will not score high enough on my GMAT to consider these at this time. Also the cost is generally prohibitive in attending private business schools with a range in the New York area of about $14,000-$22,000 Per Year for two years. Add that on to lost opportunity cost and many of us wonder why we should pursue a MBA degree at all. After all, if one doesn't attend a top 30 school, and there are more than 200 schools offering MBA programs, salaries often start out between $45,000 - $60,000. And most of the graduates that are earning these salaries already have about 4 years of work experience.

So, in reality, most of these new MBA would be getting the same salary or slightly more without their MBA degrees. Let’s look at the cost of getting an MBA. Hofstra University, annual cost of $17,000 (includes, books, fees, tuition) X 2 years = $34,000 + interest = approx $39,000 debt. The alternative is to keep working at say $50,000 a year minus taxes= $32,500 X 2 = $65,000 + investment appreciation of say $25,000 in that period from stock market gains. So the Non MBA could have $90,000 in cash at the time the MBA is $39,000 in debt. Doesn't look very good for the MBA. I didn't include living costs like rent, because both groups would have to pay these items and probably assume more debt, so the difference would not change between the two. The opportunity of going for the MBA is equal to the lost opportunity Salary + the debt assumed in gaining the degree. So the cost in this example of getting the MBA is $39,000 + $90,000 = $129,000.

So the MBA would have to make $129,000 extra money to catch up with the non-MBA. Being MBA salaries are only about $10,000-$20,000 higher than non MBA is can be seen that in would take a long time. Also, the MBA, approaching the 31% tax bracket on federal income tax, higher 4% state tax, 8% Social security, fica, so his actual gain above the non-MBA is reduced by 44% for tax paid, and another 8% if the money is spent on sales tax. So the MBA's $10K-20K advantage is reduced to $5,000-$10,000 per year. Meanwhile the Non-MBA's investment of $90,000 may return an additional 20% annually with no tax if he doesn't sell. That means the Non-MBA actually is earning more now by about $10,000. And as the Non-MBA investment grows, the amount the Non-MBA earns over the MBA will grow as well. So the MBA is not necessarily better off money wise.

As one immigrant who was a millionaire told his son, he didn't want his son to work in the same business and make millions, he wanted his son to have a better life and a title such as Lawyer, CPA or MBA even if he didn't earn as much because of the presumed social prestige, not economic. On another note I worked in one place in NYC where half the 40 sales people are earning over $80,000 per year, with under 2 years experience, and many without 4 year degrees. These people spend no money on college and have a lot of cash, and will be far richer than those of us that pursue MBA's and start out at lower salaries. The only hope for the MBA is if the non-MBA doesn't invest his money and the MBA eventually earns more and works until he is 65 years old, than it might pay."

Aaaah. My sentiments exactly, with emphasis on ”.....because of the presumed social prestige, not economic.”

[tennisace]

( Commercial )

After several years of experimenting.. Finally, NASA scientists and astronauts came up with the solution (?) to a problem: A ball pen (INK) that will defy the zero gravity in space.

While doing that long experimentation, Russian cosmonaut are just using pencil.
:lol: A fine example of over-thinking and over-analyzing.

[tennisace]

Quite an interesting topic, am an entrepreneur myself, with a business that's already stable. However, in 2 to 3 years time I plan to migrate, and take up my MBA abroad.

The weird thing is, I know that growing my business here will be more rewarding in the long run, but at the same time I want to take up further studies abroad and experience corporate life in a different environment. Worst thing that could happen is I fail there, and go back here to the Philippines and start anew.
You have a stable business and you expect it to have the legs for a marathon, but you want to leave it behind and migrate abroad to take up your MBA, then go back to the Phils if you fail and start anew.

What’s wrong with this picture?

You don’t have to be an expatriate to take up further studies abroad. Use your existing business to leverage every conceivable tax deduction, including your continuing education and/or “educational” trips abroad. Corporate life is not all that it’s cracked up to be. But then again, that’s just me. I left a comfortable and promising corporate career to start my own gig. The thought of bigwigs yanking my corporate leash at their leisure just wasn’t too exciting for me. I’d rather hold the leash, not wear it. If I ever need an MBA, I’ll hire one. Tax-deductible business expense.

[lehboy]

Tennisace, yup I agree with you. But it's not my decision to make. I'm getting married next year, and I promised my soon to be wife that we'll go abroad and take our chances. (She wants to move out of here).

I've nothing against MBA's or non-MBA's. It's just that I feel I've nothing to lose if I take the MBA (maybe lost opportunities and income) but everything to gain. Either way, I'm still not sure if I'll pursue it. But if I have the chance, why not.

[soulontap]

Hi tennisace,

A good MBA program WILL make you think better. No question about it. Some frameworks look simple but that's not the same as being simplistic.

I purposely used the decision tree framework - and profit problem - as examples because both are easy to understand. The framework is also used in fields as diverse as biotechnology - albeit in a more sophisticated manner - to determine go-no go decisions for development of experimental cures.

Imagine you are having lunch with the CEO of a telecom company and you are asked to make a back-of-the-napkin analysis to the question "Hey, do you think my firm should enter the power generation business?" What would you do?

Now if you are familiar with frameworks, you can use:
- Porter's five forces to determine if the industry would be an attractive investment
- Then the value chain framework to look at where value is added in the power business
- You can also use the 3Cs to give you an idea on the market potential
- Then you determine if the telco firm has the necessary competencies to be in the power generation business

In a span of a few minutes, you are able to use four different frameworks to arrive at a logical conclusion. Logical does not mean being correct, but at least you have a basis to what you are saying; as against say the recent state of the nation address of a head of state - nice to hear but without basis, it's just fairy tales.


To the original poster's question:

I took a part-time MBA the first time around but it didn't worked out due to the requirements of my work. In the end, I bit the bullet, took out a loan and got into a full-time program instead. (Now I have an MBA with a huge loan to settle...ouch!)

In terms of intellectual growth, I think one will benefit most from an MBA education when you are in your 30s because that's the time when you can appreciate and actually use the tools. But in terms of corporate career advancement, the earlier you finish an MBA, the better. Ironic huh?

It's true that there's a lot of very successful businessmen who didn't pursue graduate studies. Aside from possesing the necessary skillsets/mindsets of an entrepreneur, they surround themselves with very smart guys and took advanced courses along the way. (i.e. If you have the chance to look at the resumes of the local taipans, you'll be surprised that all of them took advanced education. Very much different from their publicly build persona of hard work and minimal education.)

[tennisace]

Tennisace, yup I agree with you. But it's not my decision to make. I'm getting married next year, and I promised my soon to be wife that we'll go abroad and take our chances. (She wants to move out of here).

I've nothing against MBA's or non-MBA's. It's just that I feel I've nothing to lose if I take the MBA (maybe lost opportunities and income) but everything to gain. Either way, I'm still not sure if I'll pursue it. But if I have the chance, why not.

Well then, these are extenuating circumstances. In which case, I offer my best wishes to you and your fiancee. I would encourage you to pursue the education you seek, although it would certainly be kinder and gentler on your wallet if you can turn your educational expense into a deduction. Unless you have Daddy Warbucks (like some lucky ones I know), I think it would be a shame for you to be in debt before you even started just so you can have the priviledge of tacking on three extra initials to your name.;)

I got nothing against getting a higher education. It's just that I prefer to get my hands dirty, get things done and make some money; be on the frontlines instead of being an armchair general and/or a backseat driver. It's like omeng's commercial about the American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts.

[tennisace]

Hi tennisace,

A good MBA program WILL make you think better. No question about it. Some frameworks look simple but that's not the same as being simplistic.

I purposely used the decision tree framework - and profit problem - as examples because both are easy to understand. The framework is also used in fields as diverse as biotechnology - albeit in a more sophisticated manner - to determine go-no go decisions for development of experimental cures.

Imagine you are having lunch with the CEO of a telecom company and you are asked to make a back-of-the-napkin analysis to the question "Hey, do you think my firm should enter the power generation business?" What would you do?

Now if you are familiar with frameworks, you can use:
- Porter's five forces to determine if the industry would be an attractive investment
- Then the value chain framework to look at where value is added in the power business
- You can also use the 3Cs to give you an idea on the market potential
- Then you determine if the telco firm has the necessary competencies to be in the power generation business

In a span of a few minutes, you are able to use four different frameworks to arrive at a logical conclusion. Logical does not mean being correct, but at least you have a basis to what you are saying; as against say the recent state of the nation address of a head of state - nice to hear but without basis, it's just fairy tales.


To the original poster's question:

I took a part-time MBA the first time around but it didn't worked out due to the requirements of my work. In the end, I bit the bullet, took out a loan and got into a full-time program instead. (Now I have an MBA with a huge loan to settle...ouch!)

In terms of intellectual growth, I think one will benefit most from an MBA education when you are in your 30s because that's the time when you can appreciate and actually use the tools. But in terms of corporate career advancement, the earlier you finish an MBA, the better. Ironic huh?

It's true that there's a lot of very successful businessmen who didn't pursue graduate studies. Aside from possesing the necessary skillsets/mindsets of an entrepreneur, they surround themselves with very smart guys and took advanced courses along the way. (i.e. If you have the chance to look at the resumes of the local taipans, you'll be surprised that all of them took advanced education. Very much different from their publicly build persona of hard work and minimal education.)
Maybe I’m just picking on semantics here, but you’re statement sounds like an absolute certainty. Well, it’s not. A saturated sponge and a non-porous rock are congruent in a certain respect: they don’t absorb liquids. How does this relate to people? Some people can be as saturated as a sponge and as dumb as a rock. Getting into a good MBA program ain’t gonna cure it. I don’t know about you, but I know of at least four MBA grads (three of which graduated from Ivy League schools no less) whom I consider analytically sharp but practically dull.

It is my non-MBA opinion that your “power generation business” question is unfair at best. While I applaud you for your MBA-bred “better thinking”, you neglected to mention a few important things. You failed to qualify this person having lunch with the CEO, and you also failed to state this lunch person’s relationship to the CEO. Hence, I am unable to quantify the question. In the absence of such, I can only guess that the CEO is merely trying to elicit an opinion from his lunch mate. You can launch into a multi-framework tirade, but ultimately, the logical conclusion you speak of becomes merely a conjecture. As the saying goes, conjectures and opinions are like as sholes; everybody has one. Even if such frameworks will give you, as you say, a logical basis to what you’re saying, you’re still not answering the question in its real sense. You will need to get back to your Lotus worksheets and use your multi-colored highlighters to perform a real “better thinking” analysis.

If it was me, and this CEO who happens to be a friend of mine popped the question, I’ll have to admit I don’t know squat about the power generation industry. But then again, I would seriously doubt if one MBA can possibly know everything there is to know up to the minute about every industry and/or business sector at a drop of a hat. In any event, MBA framework gobbledygook or not, the first thing I would do to address his question is to ask my friend the CEO a loaded question, “What made you consider the power generation business?” The CEO’s question was a response to a stimulus. Something made him think about it. My first response would be to determine what that is. There are a number of reasons that would prompt the CEO to ask the question. And the real-world answer to the question would depend upon the cause behind the CEO’s stimuli. For all we know, there could be some deep-seated issues that the CEO is grappling with, and diversifying into the power generation business is merely a reaction to it, justifiably so or not.

Now speaking of PEx and the problem-solution-execution troika as highlighted by rabb:

Problem - annoying server busy messages
Solution - get a better server and/or increase bandwidth
Execution - ???

which could spawn:

Problem - revenue-generating advertisers might not find these annoying server busy messages good for their intents and purposes
Solution - see above; tell tennisace to go somewhere else if he's annoyed
Execution- ???

which could lead to:

Problem - advertisers going elsewhere
Solution - see above; admin cancels tennisace's membership because now he's annoying
Execution - ???
:)
What framework are we using for this one?:lol:

[rabbaddal]

If you have the chance to look at the resumes of the local taipans, you'll be surprised that all of them took advanced education. Very much different from their publicly build persona of hard work and minimal education.

A good point and yes, this fact is often overlooked. Though probably not all of them took advanced degrees. That’s one reason why I don’t buy cause and effect generalizations like how too much education can paralyze decision making or taking an MBA makes entrepreneurs afraid to take risks and reach the summit. ;)

[rabbaddal]

Now speaking of PEx and the problem-solution-execution troika as highlighted by rabb:


The troika was hatched by omeng, as a matter of fact. I gave an example.

[tennisace]

The troika was hatched by omeng, as a matter of fact. I gave an example.
My bad. I stand corrected. BTW, handling the heatwave ok?

[rabbaddal]

OK is an understatement. The hotter the weather, the hotter the girls who bathe in the park wearing nothing but strings.

[tennisace]

OK is an understatement. The hotter the weather, the hotter the girls who bathe in the park wearing nothing but strings.
I, for one, would love to conduct a thorough due diligence and a comprehensive analysis on tan lines.:naughty:

I did hear from someone that the beach at Sandy Hook provides an advanced education on human anatomy.

[lehboy]

I got nothing against getting a higher education. It's just that I prefer to get my hands dirty, get things done and make some money; be on the frontlines instead of being an armchair general and/or a backseat driver. It's like omeng's commercial about the American astronauts and Russian cosmonauts.

Well practically I have no experience in the corporate world, so for me it's another challenge. But I do agree with you tennisace, nothing like getting your hands dirty. Nothing beats making and executing the business decision yourself, whatever the outcome.

[rabbaddal]

/\/\

I agree with the part about "nothing like". The one about "nothing beats", however, is subjective.

[RiskyMode]

Problem - annoying server busy messages
Solution - get a better server and/or increase bandwidth
Execution - ???


For IE end user, goto tools,internet options,advanced settings
and uncheck (enable 3rd party browsing extension).*okay*

[ako si..]

So basically, it's spending all that time and money to add three initials after your name that supposedly entitles you to a title and salary with snob appeal so that you can build somebody else's company and make somebody else rich.

If self-improvement and brain activity is what you're after, there are better and cheaper alternatives.

No knock on MBAs, but the most successful business founders and owners do not hold MBA degrees, some are even college or high school dropouts.

Given the choice of starting and building a business versus getting an MBA to get a higher pay and the snob appeal of having these initials attached to your name while working for somebody else, I would choose the business without hesitation. No offense intended, but I just think that the motivation for coveting these initials are born of the inherent human desire for status. Alexander the Great was no MBA. He was out there on the battlefield in the frontlines with his warriors getting the job done. British General Charles Cornwallis was an MBA. He sat on his horse a mile behind the frontlines surrounded by his officers not far from his portable luxury living room. A classic armchair general and backseat driver. But then again, that's just me. I understand that some people prefer the predictability of a job than the unpredictability of building a business.

So basically, it's spending all that time and money to add three initials after your name that supposedly entitles you to a title and salary with snob appeal so that you can build somebody else's company and make somebody else rich.

for me im spending my time and money going to school is worth it, that's how i view it. and whith that "snob" appeal, i guess nasa tao na lang yan kung lalaki ulo nya after getting that degree.

If self-improvement and brain activity is what you're after, there are better and cheaper alternatives.

of course there are, just read and read and read and you'll get alot from it. but i guess im blessed to have extra money on the side to send my self to school.

No knock on MBAs, but the most successful business founders and owners do not hold MBA degrees, some are even college or high school dropouts.

i guess you are referring to the tycoons but of course they are but just a few, and not everybody has that kind of luck.

what im trying to point out is that getting an mba degree does not automatically mean that i or anybody else for that matter wants to acquire that "snob" appeal, and in the end, we're just gonna sit our *** on a chair doing nothing, of course i want to practice it by being hands on.

[rabbaddal]

No knock on MBAs, but the most successful business founders and owners do not hold MBA degrees, some are even college or high school dropouts.

i guess you are referring to the tycoons but of course they are but just a few, and not everybody has that kind of luck.


On this particular matter, it was correctly pointed out in this thread that a good number of these tycoons actually do have MBA degrees. This reality has often been overlooked.

[gerbera]

To the original poster's question:

In terms of intellectual growth, I think one will benefit most from an MBA education when you are in your 30s because that's the time when you can appreciate and actually use the tools. But in terms of corporate career advancement, the earlier you finish an MBA, the better. Ironic huh?


Yes, ironic indeed.

Is this because seeing "graduate of MBA" in a young person's resume is more impressive even if the actual application of MBA concepts and tools would come in later in that person's career?

In my opinion, taking MBA studies equips one with tools to advance his career or business. It's up to him to make use of those tools. Seems like tennisace has come across with several MBA grads who did add the three initials to their names. Too bad. I've only seen one such name and, perhaps contrary to that person's intention, I wasn't very impressed.

I guess most people do see MBA as something to be proud of. Mukhang nasobrahan nga lang yung iba. Hehe.

[stellemon]

Taking your masters will not only be an educational fulfillment, it is also somehow through MBA that you end up getting more contacts-- im not saying that not taking MBA will result in some dead end job,im just saying for me, it has somehow allowed me to establish some contacts too which ended up helping me in business-- likewise with my colleagues.

[soulontap]

tennisace: Take it easy. What I wanted to point out in my post was that there are a lot more frameworks than the decision tree I mentioned earlier. The situation with the CEO is quite common - hey! change the CEO to a friend wanting to open a corner panederia - as I've said it's a back-of-the-napkin analysis kind of thing.

I don't know much about the power or panaderia business but frameworks, while not being able to lead to answers, will usually produce good and hopefully the right questions. And of course, you don't actually go around telling people you are using this or that framework, it's an internal thing and in practice, quite conversational. (By the way, the frameworks I mentioned also includes questions you mentioned you will ask the CEO.)

Anyway, that's my take on what I got out of my MBA - and of course the debt... *haaay*

gerbera:
I think by the time they are in a position to use the tools, nakalimutan na nila paanong gamitin yun. Haha

Personally, I am (privately) proud that I managed to finish the mba. But it's more because of the discipline involved in the endeavor. It's a bit like the elation I felt finishing my first and only marathon. Natapos din. *Hyuk! Hyuk!*

[rabbaddal]

Is this because seeing "graduate of MBA" in a young person's resume is more impressive even if the actual application of MBA concepts and tools would come in later in that person's career?


Depends on the career pursued and the skills the student chooses to acquire. For some careers that require structuring and problem solving such as professional services, the use of the MBA could happen immediately after graduation. Those in careers that involve a great deal of people management, on the other hand, might have to wait a little.

[skywalkr]

i agree with most of all views here..having an MBA degree will not necessarily guarantee a successful career, but definitely your "networks" will be widened, thus more career options can be opened.... but of course, there are some tradeoffs ....sleepless nights and less social life are some "costs" to be considered (aside from the money)...haaaay

[bluethehero]

i am interested to take MBA, pero required ba ang work experience?

[lehboy]

Well, most MBA programs do require at least two to three years of work experience.

[rabbaddal]

i am interested to take MBA, pero required ba ang work experience?

Two to three years is the most common minimum requirement. But it's recommended to work for at least five years with some project / people management or investing experience if you want to get the most of your MBA. What you get from it will also depend on what you can contribute to the community.

If you're a very recent graduate (1 to 3 years), I'd recommend aiming for an MS or MA first in order to acquire deeper techinichal skills. Work for a little while after that and then pursue an MBA, possibly at your company's expense. The global business environment is getting to be very competitive and it's not unusual to find MBA candidates who also have MS, LLB, MD or PhD degrees.

You're working in the financial sector, right? Perhaps you could research on scholarships / grants in finance or economics offered for ASEAN, ADB and APEC students.

[omeng]

"A good MBA program CAN / WILL make you think better."

I disagree, they do not think better, they just think too much, and there's no question about it. More on blah blah and et cetera. :D

Oh well, in sum total, as far as i can see, there are a lot of disadvatages.

And as my friend always says to his VPs, "Don't give me problems, give me solutions."

[rabbaddal]

they just think too much, and there's no question about it. More on blah blah and et cetera. :D


Tell that to Manny Villar. ;)

[omeng]

Hmmm... kaya pala ang sabi niya...

Hard work, persistence, and perseverance became his guiding principles in life. This earned him the title “Mr. Sipag at Tiyaga.”

Tsong, STD (Sipag, Tiyaga at Dasal) ang nisasabi ni IDOL at hindi ang pagkakaroon niya MBA. At yun ang nagdala sa rurok ng kanyang tagumpay.

==========================================================

If I may re-post again and high lighted those scores... please tell me what else to be discuss? ;)

International Virtual Team Project

I n this project, several students were surveyed in America and in Malaysia. The students were divided into categories of either American Management 300 Students or American Non-Management Students or Malaysian MBA Students and Malaysian Non-MBA Students. They were given five assessment surveys which included, Your Intuitive Ability, Time Management Profile, "TT" Leadership Style, Performance Appraisal Assumptions, and Who's In Control? Their answers were then documented and evaluated.
The overall assessment averages were all set to be equal around a score of ten. The statistics were similar for all groups surveyed in four of the five categories. The American Management 300 Students scored extremely high in the internal locus of control in the "Who's In Control?" assessment as compared with the other groups surveyed. In all the other categories, the students scored around fives and sixes. This shows an extremely close relationship with all of the groups in all of the other categories. We think that the graph Overall Assessment Averages as Equal Values does an excellent job of showing these relationships between the different assessments and the scores of the different groups surveyed.

1. DEFINITION OF INTUITIVE ABILITY

This assessment measures a person's tendencies to use intuition in decision making. The survey is meant to express that traditional analytical techniques should be paired with the development of intuitive skills for decision making. Intuitive skills include organization, creativity and imagination. People with strong intuitive skills like to be challenged with a problem but want the opportunity to develop their own solution. The highest score in this assessment is a 12, suggesting strong intuitive skills and the lowest score is a 0, suggesting a need to further develop skills and comfort with more intuitive decision approaches.

COMPARISON OF AMERICAN MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO AMERICAN NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

Through our research comparing American Management 300 Students versus American Non-Management Students we found that the results were relatively similar. The average score for the management students was a 7 and a 6.82 for the non-management students, leading us to conclude that both groups use analytical and intuitive approaches in decision making but they both place more emphasis on intuition.

COMPARISON OF MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN NON- MBA STUDENTS

In our comparison of Malaysian MBA Students and Malaysian Non-MBA Students we discovered that the averages were again relatively similar with scores of 6.5 and 6.82 respectively. Again we can conclude that this group's decision making styles include both analytical and intuitive approaches with emphasis on the latter.

COMPARISON OF AMERICAN MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS

Our comparison of American Management 300 Students and Malaysian MBA Students we found the Americans had a slightly higher score of 7 over the Malaysian's score of 6.5. Once again we discovered that both groups use intuitive skills more often than an analytical approach.

EFFECTS ON MANAGEMENT

The results of this survey indicate that the three groups we compared like the challenge of a problem but elect to form their own plan to develop a solution. They are relatively creative, emotional, and imaginative and prefer not to follow a set plan for every task. The groups are slightly above the middle of the spectrum indicating that they use intuitive and analytical decision making strategies but prefer the intuitive style in most cases.

2.DEFINITION OF TIME MANAGEMENT PROFILE

The time management assessment measures one's ability to manage time efficiently. The higher the total score with the highest being 12, the closer the behavior matches the recommended time management guidelines. This survey measures the extent to which people allocate their tasks according to the time of day during which they perform best. It also addresses the order in which people perform and delegate tasks if one feels that they would be managing their time better by giving the task to someone else.

COMPARISON OF UNITED STATES MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO UNITED STATES NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

In our comparison of American Management 300 Students and American Non-Management Students we discovered that the Management Students have behaviors that match the recommended time management guidelines more closely than the non-management students do. This is seen by the average score of the management students of 7.7 versus the average score of the non-management students that were 6.47. These statistics lead us to conclude that the management students allocate their time more efficiently but on a scale of 0 to 12 it would be beneficial to improve these skills.

COMPARISON OF MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN NON-MBA STUDENTS

Through our research comparing the Malaysian MBA Students and the Malaysian Non-MBA Students we discovered similar results with scores of 6.17 and 6.67 respectively. These scores indicate that the Non-MBA students manage their time more efficiently than the MBA students do.

COMPARISON OF AMERICAN MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS

In our comparison of American Management 300 Students and Malaysian MBA Students we established that the Americans manage their time much better than the Malaysians seen by the scores of 7.7 and 6.17 respectively.

EFFECTS ON MANAGEMENT

The time management skills of the Americans and the Malaysians could use improvement as shown by the fact that all scores were in a "middle range." The American Management 300 Students had the highest score, with a 7.7 out of 12. This indicates: that this group performs tasks in order of importance during the time of day when they know they perform best, they allocate tasks to other people who can perform them in order to make more time to accomplish different tasks, they do not schedule their time completely each day so they can respond to daily events as they occur but they do block a certain portion of the day, which is dedicated to high-priority activities, in comparison to their Malaysian counterparts.

3. DEFINITION OF PERFORMANCE APPRAISALS

A Performance Appraisal is a process of formally evaluating performance and providing feedback. Appraisals have many purposes including:

Development Purpose-assistance in training of employees.
Evaluation Purpose-Comparison of employee's performance to the company's standards.
Judgmental Purpose-Direct Evaluation of someone else's accomplishments.
Counseling Purpose-Focus on a subordinate's evaluative needs.
In the below graph, we compared "Performance Appraisal Assumptions" of four groups, United States Management 300 Students, United States Non-Management Students, Malaysian M.B.A Students, and Malaysian Non-MBA Students.

COMPARISON OF UNITED STATES MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO UNITED STATES NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

Management 300 Students had similar opinions of performance appraisals as the Non-Management Students. Both groups believed that performance appraisals were evenly split between the evaluation perspective and development perspective. Although Management 300 Students put slightly more emphasis on the Development aspect of performance appraisals then the non-management students (5.42-USMgt300 compared to USNonMgt).

COMPARISON OF MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN NON-MBA STUDENTS

Malaysian MBA Students and Malaysian Non-MBA Students also feel that performance appraisals are equally split between the evaluative task and the developmental task. There is virtually no difference between Malaysian MBA Students and Malaysian Non-MBA students in respect to whether developmental or evaluative aspect is more important (5.28-MYMBA compared to MYNon at 5.25).

COMPARISON OF UNITED STATES MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS

From our research, we concluded that Malaysian and American students feel similarly about performance appraisals. Both Americans and Malaysians feel that the developmental and evaluative aspects of performance appraisals are approximately of equally importance with developmental only slightly more important than evaluative.

4.DEFINITION OF "TT" LEADERSHIP

The two T's in "TT" Leadership stand for transformational and transactional leadership.

transformational leadership is inspirational leadership that gets people to do more in achieving high performance. transformational leaders possess the following characteristics:

Vision-having ideas and a clear path to implementation. Also the ability to motivate others to help in the pursuit of these goals.
Charisma-having the ability to excite people about a project or task through use of personal references and appeal to one's emotions.
Symbolism-rewarding individuals for a job well done.
Empowerment-Giving other employees the ability to have a say in important matters and giving employees the power to perform challenging tasks.
Intellectual Stimulation-Stimulating the mind power of others by making them aware of the situation but letting them come up with their own solution to the problem.

Integrity-Being honest and credible.
transactional leadership is a leadership that directs the efforts of others through tasks, rewards, and structures. This type of leader adjusts each employee's responsibilities according to what is thought the employee will like and do best.

COMPARISON OF AMERICAN MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS AMERICAN NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

In the United States, there seem to be equal numbers of transactional and transformational leaders. Having a college education does not seem to have an impact on managerial style. If there is any difference, college has a slightly higher percentage of transformational leaders. This could mean that Management 300 teaches managerial perspectives to motivate employees to perform tasks they would not normally wish to do.

COMPARISON OF MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN NON-MBA STUDENTS

Malaysians also seem to have a equal number of transactional and transformational leaders. For MBA Students we have found that there is a 50/50 split. Although for Non MBA Students there are slightly more transformational leaders then transactional leaders. This could mean that Malaysian colleges teach managers to adjust the work to the standards of the employee.

COMPARISON OF UNITED STATES MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS

From this data, we have concluded there is not much difference in leadership styles of Americans and Malaysians, when it is between transactional and transformational leadership styles. Individuals that are not MBA students tend to be more transformational, and MBA students tended to be more transactional.
5. DEFINITION OF CONTROL

This assessment offers an interpretation of your tendency toward an internal locus of control or an external locus of control. People having a high internal locus of control tend to believe they have control over their own destinies. People with a high external locus of control, on the contrary, tend to believe that what happens to them is largely in the hands of other people or external forces. They may be less comfortable with self-control and more responsive to external controls in the workplace.

COMPARISON OF UNITED STATES MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO UNITED STATES NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

American Management 300 Students had a very high internal locus of control compared to American Non-Management Students. The average score for external locus of control for American Management 300 Students was 9.33 out of 10, while for American Non-Management Students the average score was 7.42. The external locus of control scores were extremely low for American Management 300 Students at .67 while the Non-Management Students scored an average of 2.58.

COMPARISON OF MALAYSIAN MBA STUDENTS TO MALAYSIAN NON-MBA STUDENTS

The Malaysian MBA Students and Non-MBA Students had a similar scoring when dealing with internal and external locus of control. The Malaysian MBA Students scored an average of 7.50 out of 10 for internal locus of control while the Non-MBA students scored an average of 7.27. For external locus of control, the Malaysian MBA Students scored an average of 2.50 while the Non-MBA Students scored an average of 2.67.

COMPARISON OF UNITED STATES MANAGEMENT 300 STUDENTS TO UNITED STATES NON-MANAGEMENT STUDENTS

American Management 300 Students had a very high internal locus of control compared to Malaysian MBA students. The average score for internal locus control for the American Management 300 Students was 9.33 out of 10, while the average score for the Malaysian MBA Students was 7.50. The average score for external locus of control for the US students was .67 and for the Malaysians was 2.50. This shows that the American Management 300 Students feel that they have much more control of their destiny than Malaysian MBA students do.

EFFECTS ON MANAGEMENT

This information is very useful to management as a whole. If a manager knows their employee's locus of control, it can focus on that and try to adjust to them. If a manager knows that their employee has a high internal locus of control, then the manager could understand that this employee would work best in circumstances that involve opportunities for greater self-control in the workplace. On the other hand, if the manager knows that their employee has a high external locus of control, they can focus on less self-control in the workplace and offer direction and instruction, because this is what the employee would feel most comfortable with.

All of the students evaluated in this survey proved to have a higher internal than external locus of control. Management should understand this information and provide opportunity for self-control. They should step back and let their employees make more decisions. This is especially true for the American Management 300 Students. They showed extremely high scores for internal locus of control compared to others surveyed. A little direction and instruction should be provided for the other students surveyed, but management should be somewhat careful because they too, showed a strong internal locus.

In conclusion, we think that these assessments and results were extremely interesting. Management can definitely use these results to better interact with their employees. Understanding the data collected through these surveys can help management to change or emphasize important points of the their management techniques.

Using the data can benefit entire organizations. The intuitive skills that your employees exhibit can allow you to place them in a position where they are comfortable. A person's time management skills are very important to every organization; the organization's goals and expectations can only be met if your employees exhibit good time management skills. An employee's performance appraisal scores allow you to decide if the manager needs to document a subordinate's performance or if they would be more comfortable if the manager would help them and to learn from them. Knowing an employee's leadership style and their locus of control offers you an opportunity to provide self-control in the workplace or a more guided and directed approach.

Knowing an employee's skills and abilities can only help you when you supervise them. Management is not an easy skill and knowing when to act and how to balance the different styles of management for different people can be extremely demanding. The workplace is changing and the workers of today have very different ideas and expectations than previous generations did. Keeping up with all the new information and new approaches to managing will benefit the managers of the future.

==========================================================

Now, why spend a lot of money for this MBA when the factors seems to promise so little in dealing management thingy? Plus, economically and practically-wise. Eh kung ibibili mo na lang ng pagkain yan eh di mabubusog ka pa? :D Remember, "healthy body, healthy mind". ;)

[tennisace]

For IE end user, goto tools,internet options,advanced settings
and uncheck (enable 3rd party browsing extension).*okay*
That ain't gonna work, my fellow Ace.:)

[tennisace]

So basically, it's spending all that time and money to add three initials after your name that supposedly entitles you to a title and salary with snob appeal so that you can build somebody else's company and make somebody else rich.

for me im spending my time and money going to school is worth it, that's how i view it. and whith that "snob" appeal, i guess nasa tao na lang yan kung lalaki ulo nya after getting that degree.

If self-improvement and brain activity is what you're after, there are better and cheaper alternatives.

of course there are, just read and read and read and you'll get alot from it. but i guess im blessed to have extra money on the side to send my self to school.

No knock on MBAs, but the most successful business founders and owners do not hold MBA degrees, some are even college or high school dropouts.

i guess you are referring to the tycoons but of course they are but just a few, and not everybody has that kind of luck.

what im trying to point out is that getting an mba degree does not automatically mean that i or anybody else for that matter wants to acquire that "snob" appeal, and in the end, we're just gonna sit our *** on a chair doing nothing, of course i want to practice it by being hands on.
Spending your time and money? Please review omeng's posted article.

Oh, I didn't say read, read, and read. I said there are cheaper and better alternatives. Even you have to agree with that. You could have taken your extra money and made more money with it. Again, please review omeng's posted article.

I wasn't referring to tycoons. I was referring to ordinary people who had the balls to get out of their comfort zone and strike it out on their own. If you can do some of this framework analysis, I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of entrepreneurs who can be considered successful are nowhere near MBA status. And, mind you, luck had nothing to do with it.

[omeng]

Tennisace, if I may share these 4 forms of excusitis and these are...

1. Health Excusitis
2. Age Excusitis
3. Intelligence Excusitis
4. Luck Excusitis

[tennisace]

Taking your masters will not only be an educational fulfillment, it is also somehow through MBA that you end up getting more contacts-- im not saying that not taking MBA will result in some dead end job,im just saying for me, it has somehow allowed me to establish some contacts too which ended up helping me in business-- likewise with my colleagues.
There's no question that MBA school gets you contacts. But there are many other venues where you can do the same, or even better. Example: Play golf.

[tennisace]

tennisace: Take it easy. What I wanted to point out in my post was that there are a lot more frameworks than the decision tree I mentioned earlier. The situation with the CEO is quite common - hey! change the CEO to a friend wanting to open a corner panederia - as I've said it's a back-of-the-napkin analysis kind of thing.

I don't know much about the power or panaderia business but frameworks, while not being able to lead to answers, will usually produce good and hopefully the right questions. And of course, you don't actually go around telling people you are using this or that framework, it's an internal thing and in practice, quite conversational. (By the way, the frameworks I mentioned also includes questions you mentioned you will ask the CEO.)

Anyway, that's my take on what I got out of my MBA - and of course the debt... *haaay*

gerbera:
I think by the time they are in a position to use the tools, nakalimutan na nila paanong gamitin yun. Haha

Personally, I am (privately) proud that I managed to finish the mba. But it's more because of the discipline involved in the endeavor. It's a bit like the elation I felt finishing my first and only marathon. Natapos din. *Hyuk! Hyuk!*
No worries, mate. We're just talking here.

Now that you've gotten your diploma, quo vadis?

[tennisace]

Yes, ironic indeed.

Seems like tennisace has come across with several MBA grads who did add the three initials to their names.
Amigo, in adding these three initials, I was speaking figuratively. :lol: I thought we were MBA-smart enough to know the difference.

[tennisace]

Tennisace, if I may share these 4 forms of excusitis and these are...

1. Health Excusitis
2. Age Excusitis
3. Intelligence Excusitis
4. Luck Excusitis

And to this, I add:

STATUS
Buying things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like.

And we got a few of them around;)

[omeng]

and to remind everybody on that results... they are just talking of MBA vs Non-MBA... eh, how much more of Entrepreneur versus MBA holder? :D

[rabbaddal]

Hmmm... kaya pala ang sabi niya...

Hard work, persistence, and perseverance became his guiding principles in life. This earned him the title “Mr. Sipag at Tiyaga.”

Tsong, STD (Sipag, Tiyaga at Dasal) ang nisasabi ni IDOL at hindi ang pagkakaroon niya MBA. At yun ang nagdala sa rurok ng kanyang tagumpay.


The question is whether MBAs just think too much. No question about it, sabi mo. Manny Villar has an MBA. Would you say he thinks too much?

What made him successful is a different matter. Taking acronyms at face value doesn’t fully explain it.


Now, why spend a lot of money for this MBA when the factors seems to promise so little in dealing management thingy? Plus, economically and practically-wise. Eh kung ibibili mo na lang ng pagkain yan eh di mabubusog ka pa? :D Remember, "healthy body, healthy mind

But the survey doesn’t talk about why or why not an MBA makes economic or practical sense. :rolleyes:

[rabbaddal]

I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of entrepreneurs who can be considered successful are nowhere near MBA status.

Differences in approach to success, perhaps. The ones who are successful and have an MBA could have seen something in the program that they could use to reach their goals. Doesn’t have to be that way for everyone. Once they've all made their hundred million bucks, who shed fifty thousand in tuition to get to it and who didn't matters little.


There's no question that MBA school gets you contacts. But there are many other venues where you can do the same, or even better. Example: Play golf.


Not a few people can do both.

[omeng]

The question is whether MBAs just think too much. No question about it, sabi mo. Manny Villar has an MBA. Would you say he thinks too much?

Well, I believe so, but he deliver so much also because of his entrepreneur being. Or maybe you will say, because he's an MBA holder... :D

We are just going on circles, bro. Mahihilo lang ang thread starter nito. ;)

[rabbaddal]

/\/\

He may have channeled some of his excessive MBA thinking into something entrepreneurial. That's not unlikely. Going by his resume, he's not the typical start from scratch guy that his PR sometimes projects him to be.

[omeng]

Taking acronyms at face value doesn’t fully explain it.

(Ganti lang ako.. :lol: )

Tell that to Manny Villar. ;)

[rabbaddal]

/\/\

He uses acronyms for PR. It doesn't mean he takes the same acronyms at face value.

[ako si..]

Aliw.. Aliw Itong Thread Na Ito.. Kinocontra Lahat Ni Tennisace Ang Lahat Na Nag-mba =) Bakit Kaya? Anu Kaya Meron? Wala Naman Curious Lang Ako Malaman San Ka Nanggagaling.

[rabbaddal]

/\/\

Hindi naman siguro nakakaaliw kung may punto siyang sinusubukang iparating. Kung mayroong hindi sumasang-ayon sa mga sinasabi niya, malaya silang magbigay ng sariling pananaw. Wala tayong mapapala sa thread na ito kung pagtatakahan natin ang mga motibo o pinanggalingan ng mga nagpopost dahil karamihan sa atin dito ay hindi magkakilala.

[ako si..]

i know he has a point, pero what's funny is that kung magsalita sya eh parang sinasabi nya sa aming mga nag-aaral na mali ang desisyon namin. i totally agree with his points naman. of course i can see the other side of the coin, i guess it's his way of making his point that makes me think.

[omeng]

/\/\

He uses acronyms for PR. It doesn't mean he takes the same acronyms at face value.

I do not think so. I do believe that having those traits and having no MBA will still lead me to the top. But having MBA without that STD will lead me nowhere. ;)

[rabbaddal]

I do not think so. I do believe that having those traits and having no MBA will still lead me to the top. But having MBA without that STD will lead me nowhere. ;)

I was referring to Manny Villar, not you. If you succeed in business without using what others can get from MBA, then good for you. ;)

[rabbaddal]

i know he has a point, pero what's funny is that kung magsalita sya eh parang sinasabi nya sa aming mga nag-aaral na mali ang desisyon namin. i totally agree with his points naman. of course i can see the other side of the coin, i guess it's his way of making his point that makes me think.

Maybe what he means is MBA won’t work for him. That doesn’t necessarily mean he thinks it won’t work for you. Some people prefer to learn and develop in the eclectic environment of business school; others, the golf course. Walang makakapag-sabing nagkamali ka kung gamitin mo ang MBA mo sa sarili mong paraan upang makaabante ka sa goals mo.

It’s a waste of energy to figure out for sure the reasons why people do something. Leave it to fools to pretend they can do it. :)

[lehboy]

Great discussion, dami ko rin natutunan from here. Well I guess different strokes for different folks. Basta importante gamitin mo kung maari ang mga natutunan mo :)

[tennisace]

Well practically I have no experience in the corporate world, so for me it's another challenge. But I do agree with you tennisace, nothing like getting your hands dirty. Nothing beats making and executing the business decision yourself, whatever the outcome.
Regarding corporate life, let me just say this, “The closer you get to the top, the closer you are to the door.” And if you’re an entrepreneur, the first thing you should be asking when contemplating a purchase of any kind is, “How can I turn this into a tax-deductible expense?” It is possible, for instance, to legally turn a birthday present for your child’s friend into a tax-deductible expense. Regular entrepreneurs and small business owners can appreciate this. MBAs? I don’t know. I don’t think they teach this kind of penny-ante stuff in MBA schools.

[tennisace]

Hmmm... kaya pala ang sabi niya...

Hard work, persistence, and perseverance became his guiding principles in life. This earned him the title “Mr. Sipag at Tiyaga.”

Tsong, STD (Sipag, Tiyaga at Dasal) ang nisasabi ni IDOL at hindi ang pagkakaroon niya MBA. At yun ang nagdala sa rurok ng kanyang tagumpay.

STD? Ngek. I better click on this PEx advertiser who’s offering flavored (or was it scented?) condoms. Safe sex na, may flavor pa.

[tennisace]

Differences in approach to success, perhaps. The ones who are successful and have an MBA could have seen something in the program that they could use to reach their goals. Doesn’t have to be that way for everyone. Once they've all made their hundred million bucks, who shed fifty thousand in tuition to get to it and who didn't matters little.

Hmmmnnn, I can buy this, although I believe that the vast majority of entrepreneurs and small business owners started out sans MBA, and those who do have MBAs acquired them later on not as a personal expense but as a tax-deductible business expense.

[tennisace]

i know he has a point, pero what's funny is that kung magsalita sya eh parang sinasabi nya sa aming mga nag-aaral na mali ang desisyon namin. i totally agree with his points naman. of course i can see the other side of the coin, i guess it's his way of making his point that makes me think.
Just offering a counterpoint, mate. Playing the devil's advocate. I admit I can be acerbic, but then again, what “devil” isn’t? I have an aversion for political correctness and sugar-coated sweet nothings. I prefer to be forthright.

It’s not for me to say if you made the right or wrong decision. A wrong decision is the right decision if you perceive it and believe it to be the right decision, and vice versa. There are those who suffer thru grief, hate and hardship because someone somewhere believes they’re doing the right thing.

I think it’s fair for you to wonder where I’m coming from. Many of you who don’t know me are probably wondering the same thing. My posts regarding business and entrepreneurial issues are not some random rants born of a dislike for people whom I perceive to have achieved more than what I have. Rather, it’s born out of a rich tapestry of experience I have acquired thru the years since starting out at the bottom as a photographer, a newspaper delivery man and a company driver, and bowing out of the corporate rat race on my own terms as a high-ranking executive. I have grabbed the reins of entrepreneurship since, and managed to educate myself on certain issues demanded by it in real time under real-world circumstances. I don't have the time and patience for analyzing case studies and coming up with set of woulda-coulda-shoulda scenarios when there are deals waiting to be made and opportunities just begging to be exploited. I am not an old man, although there are days when I certainly think I’m too old for this crap. I am as old as many of you, perhaps a little older, but not by much. I can still manage to kick the butts of snot-nosed youngsters on the tennis court.

[tennisace]

I think anyone who says they’re solely after educational fulfillment are being blind to reality. We all have a deep-seated unconscious desire for social validation and the rewards that are supposedly attached to it. We all have different methods of satisfying this need. Titles, diplomas, and the prestige and money that go with it are just some of the ways.

After all, we are social creatures and as such, we strive to inject ourselves into a social stratum that is above where we perceive ourselves to be. Those who are unable to do so for whatever reason, are unwilling to put in the work, or are just plain vagrants and parasites often resort to exercising their “crab mentality” and/or wallow in a disease called “status”. Then of course, there are those who exhibit these afflictions regardless.

[rabbaddal]

Well, you're the first person to bring up the matter of educational fulfillment in this thread. The ones who actually do have and personally know something about having an MBA stated other reasons, as a matter of fact.

[tennisace]

Actually, someone else previously brought it up in this thread. I am merely expounding on it.

[rabbaddal]

/\/\

Ito ba yun?:


Taking your masters will not only be an educational fulfillment, it is also somehow through MBA that you end up getting more contacts-- im not saying that not taking MBA will result in some dead end job,im just saying for me, it has somehow allowed me to establish some contacts too which ended up helping me in business


Doesn't sound like he was solely after educational fulfillment. MBA seems to have also served a practical purpose for him. Then again, maybe it was someone else you're referring to.

[rabbaddal]

And if you’re an entrepreneur, the first thing you should be asking when contemplating a purchase of any kind is, “How can I turn this into a tax-deductible expense?” It is possible, for instance, to legally turn a birthday present for your child’s friend into a tax-deductible expense. Regular entrepreneurs and small business owners can appreciate this. MBAs? I don’t know. I don’t think they teach this kind of penny-ante stuff in MBA schools.

Tax deductibles are elementary and taught in college accounting. Even big companies snoop for any chance they can take to use a deductible expense. Incoming MBA students who didnt take accounting in college will go through this in the pre term 101 courses, or as a passing matter in a lesson for the day. There's much more worth spending lots of time on than that, even for entrepreneurs in business school.

[tennisace]

Tax deductibles are elementary and taught in college accounting. Even big companies snoop for any chance they can take to use a deductible expense. Incoming MBA students who didnt take accounting in college will go through this in the pre term 101 courses, or as a passing matter in a lesson for the day. There's much more worth spending lots of time on than that, even for entrepreneurs in business school.
:lol: You’re kidding, right?:rotflmao:

In the event you’re serious (and I find it amusing if you are), I think the point I was trying to make just totally zoomed right over your head. Being taught Taxation 101 and using the Tax Code to your advantage are two different things.

Okay, let me put it another way: Can you tell us how it is possible to turn a birthday present for your child’s friend into a tax deduction?

It’s okay to say “I don’t know”. Like I said, I don’t think they teach penny-ante stuff like this in MBA school.

[soulontap]

Very true. MBA don't teach you about the 'penny-ante' stuff. Like say, how to set up your own business, build credit, lessen tax payment by changing your corporate existence. (Btw, setting up a legal entity in the Philippines can be such a pain in the behind. It takes about 40 days and countless procedures compared to say Australia and the US where it only takes about a day or two.)

MBA is also not about entrepreneurship and managing. (Managing is very much about actual practice, can't learn that in a classroom.)

MBA do help a lot in setting business directions though - from crafting a vision to implementation - something which most firms are lacking.

[omeng]

I was referring to Manny Villar, not you. If you succeed in business without using what others can get from MBA, then good for you. ;)

Yes, I was referring to myself and to Manny as well in a context form. ;)

In the future, I am certain that I will hire the services of MBAs to run some part of my small tiny litol empire. It is simply because, that's their expertise. :naughty:

==========================================================

Ace, may premyo ba yang tanong mo pag nasagot ng tama? :D

[lehboy]

tennisace, if one chooses to become to entrepreneur, is there a school that one can go to?

rabbaddal, I'd have to disagree about tax deductibles being elementary. Yes, they are taught in college accounting, but I hardly see my friends who aced accounting or finance apply that stuff in real life. In fact, personal money management is one aspect I think most people are deficient in.

[rabbaddal]

:lol: You’re kidding, right?:rotflmao:

In the event you’re serious (and I find it amusing if you are), I think the point I was trying to make just totally zoomed right over your head. Being taught Taxation 101 and using the Tax Code to your advantage are two different things.

Okay, let me put it another way: Can you tell us how it is possible to turn a birthday present for your child’s friend into a tax deduction?

It’s okay to say “I don’t know”. Like I said, I don’t think they teach penny-ante stuff like this in MBA school.

You're the one who missed my point. You pat yourself on the back for knowing a way to use the tax code to your advantage, but the truth is lots of people of all backgrounds do that in one way or another throughout the course of their business. Case-to-case applications are so myopic that they don’t have to teach it in business school.

Now, do you still want me to answer your question? ;)

[rabbaddal]

rabbaddal, I'd have to disagree about tax deductibles being elementary. Yes, they are taught in college accounting, but I hardly see my friends who aced accounting or finance apply that stuff in real life. In fact, personal money management is one aspect I think most people are deficient in.

The instance given was a business setting, though I agree that some people are not doing as good a job when it comes to personal finances.

[tennisace]

Very true. MBA don't teach you about the 'penny-ante' stuff. Like say, how to set up your own business, build credit, lessen tax payment by changing your corporate existence. (Btw, setting up a legal entity in the Philippines can be such a pain in the behind. It takes about 40 days and countless procedures compared to say Australia and the US where it only takes about a day or two.)

MBA is also not about entrepreneurship and managing. (Managing is very much about actual practice, can't learn that in a classroom.)

MBA do help a lot in setting business directions though - from crafting a vision to implementation - something which most firms are lacking.
Great to see that someone is starting to catch my drift. Would you agree that for all intents and purposes, MBA is geared toward big business?

[tennisace]

tennisace, if one chooses to become to entrepreneur, is there a school that one can go to?

Trump University

The Entrepreneurship Mastery Program

…And now there’s a smart, slam-dunk sure way of acquiring and sharpening your business-building skills . . . in just 10 weeks . . . and for many thousands of dollars less than the cost of an MBA.

UNDERSTANDING THE ENTREPRENEURIAL MINDSET
Session#1: Look before you Leap – the Life of the Entrepreneur.

DEVELOPING YOUR NEW IDEA
Session #2: Refine your Vision
Session #3: Market Research and Competitive Analysis

VALIDATING YOUR IDEA
Session #4: Marketing and Branding
Session #5: Build your Team

PLANNING YOUR BUSINESS
Session #6: Model Operations, Sales, and Finances - Part 1
Session #7: Model Operations, Sales, and Finances - Part 2
Session #8: Manage your Business
Session #9: Business Plans

CAPITAL AND SOURCES OF FINANCING
Session #10: Get Funding


..... and, yes, I attended. No dent in my wallet. Nice tax deduction.

[tennisace]

You're the one who missed my point. You pat yourself on the back for knowing a way to use the tax code to your advantage, but the truth is lots of people of all backgrounds do that in one way or another throughout the course of their business. Case-to-case applications are so myopic that they don’t have to teach it in business school.

Now, do you still want me to answer your question? ;)
I did miss your point, especially because it’s way off on a tangent.

“Patting myself on the back…” – your words, not mine. You know what they say about “assume”-ing, right?

“Being taught Taxation 101 and using the Tax Code to your advantage are two different things.” – a statement of fact that even you can agree with.

“Case-to-case applications are so myopic that they don’t have to teach it in business school” – and that’s really the problem, isn’t it? You can’t make a dollar without pennies.

By all means, please accord me the privilege of your response.
And no, it has nothing to do with representation or any of its iterations. Remember, this is a birthday present from your child to your child's friend, not from you or your business.

And thank you for clearly illustrating the stark contrast between someone who prefers to be an armchair general and someone who prefers to be in the firing line.

[tennisace]

Ace, may premyo ba yang tanong mo pag nasagot ng tama? :D
Meron. MBA diploma, with bird's eye maple frame and anti-reflective mineral glass.:eek:

[gnomen]

I think anyone who says they’re solely after educational fulfillment are being blind to reality. We all have a deep-seated unconscious desire for social validation and the rewards that are supposedly attached to it. We all have different methods of satisfying this need. Titles, diplomas, and the prestige and money that go with it are just some of the ways.

After all, we are social creatures and as such, we strive to inject ourselves into a social stratum that is above where we perceive ourselves to be. Those who are unable to do so for whatever reason, are unwilling to put in the work, or are just plain vagrants and parasites often resort to exercising their “crab mentality” and/or wallow in a disease called “status”. Then of course, there are those who exhibit these afflictions regardless.

e yun naman pala e....agree ka din, ang dami mo pang sinabi.

[omeng]

Meron. MBA diploma, with bird's eye maple frame and anti-reflective mineral glass.:eek:

Deym! I can't find my notes on this. Baka naiwan ko dun sa Pier One? :lol:

[omeng]

e yun naman pala e....agree ka din, ang dami mo pang sinabi.

cool. very cool. :lol:

[soulontap]

Great to see that someone is starting to catch my drift. Would you agree that for all intents and purposes, MBA is geared toward big business?

No, it's not. MBA education is geared toward being able to make right decisions for your business. It benefits both for-profit or non-profit organization, small or big. (I have worked with both kinds, those with enough resources to afford anything and those living on a day by day basis.) All of them benefited from what I learned from MBA - especially the small ones.

[lehboy]

What about this one from the Asian Institute of Management?

http://www.aim.edu/schools/programpreview.asp?id=204

The Master in Entrepreneurship course is an 18-month degree program designed for hands-on entrepreneurs who have been running their enterprises for a minimum of one year. The ME Program teaches entrepreneur students to learn how to learn by themselves. The thought process, not the solution, is the highlight of the learning experience. Through intensive mentoring and coaching sessions both in campus and in their respective workplaces, ME gurus answer questions with more questions leading students to a journey of discovery. Learnings are translated into practical strategies and programs which are immediately applied to the enterprise. The entrepreneur students gather even more insights and learnings from the result of these applications. Ultimately, the master entrepreneur is the one who will one day, politely decline the advice of his guru and say, "I can think for myself, I can do it on my own."

[soulontap]

It's a good program as you'll actually be working on the business you are running. An acquaintance took it up and he was happy with the results.

[tennisace]

e yun naman pala e....agree ka din, ang dami mo pang sinabi.
Agree saan? Sorry, di ko ma-gets. Kulang ako ng units para mag-MBA.:lol:

Congratulations! Your very first post, at ako pa ang dahilan. This I'm patting myself on the back for.:)

[tennisace]

No, it's not. MBA education is geared toward being able to make right decisions for your business. It benefits both for-profit or non-profit organization, small or big. (I have worked with both kinds, those with enough resources to afford anything and those living on a day by day basis.) All of them benefited from what I learned from MBA - especially the small ones.
I see. Good for you. And good for the small ones who benefitted from your expertise.

[gnomen]

Natutuwa ako sa tambalan na tennisace at omeng lalu na posts nila na nag-research tuloy ako sa mga ibang posts nila para lalu maintindihan ang kagila-gilalas na katalinuhan ng mga ito. d naman nasayang oras ko sa lahat ng nalaman ko ukol sa pag-iisip nila dahil lalo ko na sila naintindihan.sa aking konting kaalaman ito ang nalaman ko

TennisAce. talagang GurO - GurU trip nito *okay* - dami experience..entrep na entrep ang dating - pang mainland - nag bossing sa mga multi-level-business na nakapagyaman sa kanya sa datung, konek at opinion. Bilib. hinampas na nga ng hangin mainland kaya wa type ng BS, e BS din minsan binibigay. Pikon. ayaw niyan kinakalaban siya - ingat - isang sabihan mo e litanya ang ibabato sa iyo. Madami sa naisulat bilib ako, asar lang minsan sa tono mapangmataas. Matalino sa tingin ko.simple para makapagpalinaw ng pag-iisip at mag astang haring-uri dito. At para di ma OT Ayaw na ayaw sa MBA.

Ang bawat hari me jester at ayan si

Omeng. kung saan ang tennisace, d malayo diyan si omeng. nagsasagutan ng posts. ayuda - depensa ang laro ng dalawa. taas tingin kay tennisace. Idol trump, cecilio pedro at sino pa. di ako na bilib dito. mahaba lang posts pag cut and paste, ad sa entrep ng mga seminar, ad ng resort, quotation at pag minsan mag post ng kanya sinasaloob maikli at parang me mali sa tense at term. hilig sa eb at networking para makilala. At para d ma OT Ayaw na Ayaw sa lahat ng ayaw ni bos tennisace na tulad ng MBA.


swak d two. magpartner sa business. Astig mga pare.
Kaya lahat makinig okay. :naughty:

D kailangan ng MBA para maintindihan ko sila. malinaw na malinaw. Kuha niyo na rin sana.

Ang mga may plano mag MBA good! very good! pagbutihin niyo. :bop:

At ke Tennisace at Omeng, kung mapadaan kayo dito sa Singapore, PM niyo lang ako para maipakita ko kung anong nagawa ng kalokohan na MBA na sinabi niyo sa hampaslupang alipin na ito. promise omeng d ko kayo pasasakayin ng taxi dito.:)

Mga Sir, Chief, Bossing. Peace po.

[omeng]

He he, Funny guy. :lol:

The above post was meant for MMK (Maalaala Mo Kaya) and not for MBA. :D

==========================================================

I'm planning to visit my brother there on October. Sunduin mo ko sa airport, ha? :naughty:

[tennisace]

Gnomen, salamat sa research and analysis. Tipong MBA talaga ang due diligence. I suppose you also checked out my favorite website, yes? I don't dislike MBAs, lalo na pag cute. I prefer PhDs. Kung mapapadpad ka sa “mainland”, PM mo lang ako para maipakita ko kung anong nagawa ng kalokohang haring walang MBA. Kaya lang sakay ka lang ng taxi kasi kabayo’t karuwahe lang ang gamit namin dito sa kaharian.

Ang mga may plano mag MBA good! Very good! Pagbutihin niyo. Wag lang kayo mabaon sa utang, ok? Unless na lang kung meron kayong Daddy Warbucks.

omeng, ayan swak daw tayo. Padala ka ng pic tsaka biodata. Kailangan ng presidente ang fan club ko. No MBA required, pero cuteness is a must. PM kita sa next biyahe ko sa Manila. Ayaw ko ng taxi. Gusto ko limo, ok?

[rabbaddal]

Okay, let me put it another way: Can you tell us how it is possible to turn a birthday present for your child’s friend into a tax deduction?

By all means, please accord me the privilege of your response.
And no, it has nothing to do with representation or any of its iterations. Remember, this is a birthday present from your child to your child's friend, not from you or your business.


Very well. Yes, it is possible to turn a child’s birthday present into a tax deduction while minimizing audit risk. Here’s how:

- Anticipate it; anticipate that the child will spend. Children are bound to spend so they are one of the first places an entrepreneur can look at for tax deductibles, birthday present or not.

- Hire the child into the business and shift income by paying a wage instead of all or a part of an allowance. Besides, if the gift is really from child to friend, then it would be nice for the child to own it by first earning the money to buy it.

- The child can be assigned to menial responsibilities at minimum pay unless there is strong intention at that time to pass the business to the child eventually. This lessens the likelihood of overestimating the “allowance”. Parents can use their discretion here.

- If the child has to spend on something like a birthday present and the price is higher than the savings from earnings, then make the child work overtime until enough is saved to buy the present.

- If the present needs to be bought sooner than the child can work for it, then give the child a cash advance have it earned back either by working overtime later or deducting it from salary.

- Use the income shift through salary and overtime expense as deductibles.

- Restrictions apply.

[rabbaddal]

I did miss your point, especially because it’s way off on a tangent.

“Being taught Taxation 101 and using the Tax Code to your advantage are two different things.” – a statement of fact that even you can agree with.

“Case-to-case applications are so myopic that they don’t have to teach it in business school” – and that’s really the problem, isn’t it? You can’t make a dollar without pennies.


I didn’t say that they were the same or that using the tax code to one’s advantage wasn’t important. I just said that business schools don’t have to spend lots of time and resources teaching that. Theory and application are both important but it’s generally just the theory that is worth spending classroom time on. Why? One, people have learned / can learn about specific applications elsewhere. Two, people exploit these advantages differently in ways that are meaningful to their profession. Three, advantages can change quickly because tax codes change constantly. What is taught in one class could be irrelevant by the end of the semester. At least one and three are not hard for someone to figure out and from there, be able to deduce why business schools don’t spend lots of time and resources on case-to-case applications.


“Patting myself on the back…” – your words, not mine. You know what they say about “assume”-ing, right?


Yes, I know what they say about “assume”-ing. It sounds something like this: ” And thank you for clearly illustrating the stark contrast between someone who prefers to be an armchair general and someone who prefers to be in the firing line.”

[tennisace]

Very well. Yes, it is possible to turn a child’s birthday present into a tax deduction while minimizing audit risk. Here’s how:

- Anticipate it; anticipate that the child will spend. Children are bound to spend so they are one of the first places an entrepreneur can look at for tax deductibles, birthday present or not.

- Hire the child into the business and shift income by paying a wage instead of all or a part of an allowance. Besides, if the gift is really from child to friend, then it would be nice for the child to own it by first earning the money to buy it.

- The child can be assigned to menial responsibilities at minimum pay unless there is strong intention at that time to pass the business to the child eventually. This lessens the likelihood of overestimating the “allowance”. Parents can use their discretion here.

- If the child has to spend on something like a birthday present and the price is higher than the savings from earnings, then make the child work overtime until enough is saved to buy the present.

- If the present needs to be bought sooner than the child can work for it, then give the child a cash advance have it earned back either by working overtime later or deducting it from salary.

- Use the income shift through salary and overtime expense as deductibles.

- Restrictions apply.
Very nice, although I didn’t expect you to take this long to come up with some sort of an analysis. You’re right about one thing, i.e., paying the child a wage. The rest of the stuff you tacked on are just fluff and fillers. Anyhow, it was close. But you’re a couple of critical items short of a cigar.

[tennisace]

I didn’t say that they were the same or that using the tax code to one’s advantage wasn’t important. I just said that business schools don’t have to spend lots of time and resources teaching that. Theory and application are both important but it’s generally just the theory that is worth spending classroom time on. Why? One, people have learned / can learn about specific applications elsewhere. Two, people exploit these advantages differently in ways that are meaningful to their profession. Three, advantages can change quickly because tax codes change constantly. What is taught in one class could be irrelevant by the end of the semester. At least one and three are not hard for someone to figure out and from there, be able to deduce why business schools don’t spend lots of time and resources on case-to-case applications.
Nice shot. I got no choice but to concede. Excellent. Really.*okay*


Yes, I know what they say about “assume”-ing. It sounds something like this: ” And thank you for clearly illustrating the stark contrast between someone who prefers to be an armchair general and someone who prefers to be in the firing line.”
Then I guess we just have to get on our burros.;)

[gnomen]

Boss Chief. Di ako nagpapatawa. serious lahat sinulat ko.

Quotes lang. gaya ko style mo

Those who know most, most often say the least - MALCOLM S. FORBES

Ikaw ba ito? :D



He he, Funny guy. :lol:

The above post was meant for MMK (Maalaala Mo Kaya) and not for MBA. :D

==========================================================

I'm planning to visit my brother there on October. Sunduin mo ko sa airport, ha? :naughty:

[rabbaddal]

Anyhow, it was close. But you’re a couple of critical items short of a cigar.

The answer is correct as far as the question posed is concerned. As for a cigar, that I can do without. ;)

[green_phlegm]

Just something I read and would be good for those still undecided whether to get an MBA or not


MBA- What is it worth?
by Koon Mei Ching

A valid question, don't you think? A typical cost of a good to excellent MBA in the USA, UK or even Australia would cost you two years of your life and about USD100,000 of your life savings (assuming you didn't manage to swing your company to foot the bill). This, on top of the two years' worth of income you would forgo pursuing the pinnacle of education, as some might view the MBA. It might serve one well to look into whether this is all worth it.

I had kicked around with the idea of an MBA years ago, fresh out of university and getting "jaded" with my one year of work experience. I looked through a mountain of material from all the top universities around the world. I sat for the GMAT test. I looked into scholarships. I wrote bogus essays. I chatted on online MBA forums. You name it; I did it. But in the end, I didn't go. Why? Firstly, I discovered that I didn't really want an education, more than a chance to get overseas to do something else than work. Secondly, I got a job offer that allowed me to explore what I really wanted to do … only, I'd get paid for it and gain some valuable real-life experience.

There have been many debates on the merits of doing an MBA. Certain studies have shown that the MBA is at risk of becoming irrelevant. Most potential MBA-ites view it as an instant recipe to a high-flying career and a fat paycheck. There are definitely questions that are worth exploring before you make this leap.

IS THE MBA STILL RELEVANT?
The first graduate business degree was instituted by Amos Tuck School of Administration and Finance back in 1900. Over the next 50 years, the modern version of the MBA developed. Yet, in those early days, the focus was more vocational rather than professional. Former businessmen constituted the faculty, and their classes were more about learning from their war stories rather than scientific theories. As the economy grew more complex and the demands on business corporations increased, there was a push towards gearing MBAs with more "science" believed locked in theories and models. Conversely today, there is criticism that professors teaching MBA courses lack real-world experience in their field of teaching - that their theorems and scientific hypotheses fail to reflect what's demanded in today's hiring market. Evidence of this was during the dot com peak - no one without an MBA was hired - yet, there was no marked increase in the level of business wisdom as revealed during the era's implosion.

MBA schools are also being chastened from within the B-school establishment. In this day and age where students choose which school they will go to (and which bank account their parents' money goes into) based upon national and global rankings, B-schools are displaying a scary obsession on where they place, instead of focusing on updating their curriculum and keeping themselves aligned to the IT curve of development.

Some MBA programmes are being amended to move with the times. Others are remaining very still. Knowing which is doing what would be a good idea for any potential enrollee.

DOES THE MBA MEAN GREATER CAREER SUCCESS?
Obviously, this is a key concern to those planning to or undertaking an MBA at the moment. History shows that there have been many highly successful business owners who have achieved their lofty goals sans MBA. Think Michael Dell or even Bill Gates. Says George, a senior consultant: "During my decade as a consultant, I met numerous freshly minted MBA's who hadn't been introduced to organisational and operational strategies developed over 30 years ago. Many reported that they learned more in four days with me than in the years it took to complete their MBA." Another MBA taker, Lisa, is in agreement. "Like others who analysed the cost/benefit of an MBA, I have concluded that it is not worth it,” she says. “I already had a Master's degree and after spending a term in one of the leading business schools I decided that the value of the degree is exaggerated. Maybe it is the wrong values being taught where the ultimate goal is getting a high salary. Entrepreneurship involves risk-taking, timing and a feel for the market. You learn these by doing, not by analysing. You can have all the analytical tools in the world but the key ingredients of decision-making and commitment to act on issues are still missing. Some get bogged down with detail while others get stuck with lofty strategies that cannot be implemented."

It is clear that it is not the intimate knowledge of capital asset pricing that guarantees career success. Rather, the true value an individual can deliver lies in his or her ability to apply such knowledge in real life situations. We might be too ready to praise professors should we think they would be able to teach us this.

As Karen, a 48-year old in a fast-track MBA programme, observes philosophically: "A square-dance fiddler has no need of a Stradivarius. Students enrolling in a top-tier programme need to be prepared, both in terms of academics, and in their personal approach to life and learning. The tool doesn't make an apprentice an artisan, but an artisan can utilise the most rudimentary tools to produce works of art."

WILL MY MBA INVESTMENT PAY OFF?
Spending a lifetime's worth of savings on an MBA would seem rational to people who believe that their post-MBA career will reap them the glorious rewards propounded by B-schools. So, can an MBA holder really expect to earn a ludicrous salary that will pay off their initial investment (unless they are lucky enough to be company-sponsored)? In the current scenario, there is a horde of people attending B-school for an MBA. But with drum-tight hiring budgets and a tanking economy, there will likely be a global MBA glut. Many of the graduates will find themselves jobless upon graduation burdened by debt. The real problem is that the majority of MBAs (although not all by any means) want to go into strategy consulting or investment banking. There simply isn't enough of that kind of work being done to support the crowds of MBAs that are clamouring to get in. Long term, it's probably much better for the economy as a whole that all these trained managers find their way into real industry. It's up to MBAs and MBA students to adopt a more pragmatic, realistic worldview.

Should you be lucky enough to get hired overseas by a consultancy or banking firm fresh out of a top 10 ranked MBA programme, starting pay packages can average about USD $120,000-$160,000, depending on the MBA school (e.g. $80K base salary + $20K signing bonus + $20K 1st year bonus). Some of these jobs (eg, finance) balloon to $200-$300k+ within 2-3 years out of school. The potential, however slim, seem enough to compel many to take the chance. But one must be aware of how reality can bite too. John, a 2000 MBA graduate from University of San Francisco, has been lumbered by MBA debt and been living off unemployment since he was laid off in August 2001. For him and others like him, it has been a real eye-opener. "We never thought we'd be in this situation. When things got bad, the degree didn't seem to matter."

Yet many are aiming to attend expensive top 20 schools. Adrian, a 28 year-old MBA holder says this in support of the MBA investment, "An MBA is an investment like any other investment. When it's within budget (or the cost of getting the money is acceptable), you look at the risk you run and the run you can expect. If MBA's are still a highly attractive path for so many people, it's simply because they can afford it (with payments deferred), their risk is minimal (because no-one goes down after his MBA), and return is positive. The extent of the investment shouldn't bother you. It's a timely risk-return ratio assessment that matters. For me, it makes sense."

IS BEING IN A TOP-20 MBA PROGRAMME GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
And so the debate rages on. Consensus seems to indicate that a top MBA programme does matter is you are intending to launch into a management consulting or investment banking career, where the competition for MBA's is most heated. To be frank, the main reason to go to a top ranked school isn't necessarily the strength of the curriculum. Funny that. While I'm sure that the top 10 programs are arguably tougher than say the 50 - 60 ranked programs, I'd venture to say not by a whole lot. So what's all the fuss?

The true value is brand name and connections.

The social and business networks you gain from these top schools are easily worth the tuition. After two years of shared project angst and coffee-filled all-nighters, it's often easy to reconnect with good friends or even acquaintances from your MBA days with a simple email or phone call. The bond created through an alumnus is a strange, mystical thing, especially at top tier schools where the sense of belonging to an elite group is strong.

Employers these days do give more weight to your experience than to your degree, but they're still more likely to favour people they know. Sorry, folks. The Harvard MBA network is a very impressive example of how productive a branded network can be for graduates. Come resume screening time, it proves to be a huge leg up if the recruiter recognises you as an alumnus. Employers assume, with some justification, that someone who managed to get into an elite school (and pay the tuition, to boot) is ambitious, intelligent, and motivated. Further to this, many of your old buddies would probably be at senior positions in major companies 10-15 years post graduation. Now, you are both in the situation to "scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours."

SO WHAT IS THE REAL WORTH OF AN MBA?
It tends to be situational.

Some of you may not even know that the MBA was designed to help engineers to move out of technical positions and into management positions. People with business or finance backgrounds may find the programme redundant to a degree as it merely reinforces (and enhances, no doubt) their current knowledge. For them, the question is whether sacrificing two years of relevant experience is worth more than achieving an MBA. It is the group of individuals with more technical backgrounds that tend to benefit more by this broadening experience. This credential gives them the option to learn a vast amount of new concepts and make that career switch into the business or management arena.

Another point, if you are already destined for greatness on a good job trajectory, the experience gained in the real world may be far more valuable to you than pursuing an MBA.

Apart from social and business networks, you can also gain adept group communication skills from the MBA experience. At most business schools, the case method and class participation make up an important part of the curriculum. In a business school setting, you learn when to interject, when to keep silent and listen, when to be serious, and when to use humor to break the ice. This same group power dynamic exists in many business situations, from board meetings to team projects. Mastering the art of communicating in a group setting is one of the things that distinguish successful people from the rest, and it is learned very powerfully in B-school.

BOTTOM LINE
One should examine the pros and cons of attending an MBA programme against his/her longer-term goals and the relevance of the MBA in achieving those goals. Often, many lose sight of the real intent of higher education - racing more towards the finish line (and the purported dollar signs) and forget to maximise the experience right in front of them. It is an opportunity to grow professionally and personally. You will likely be tested in ways you never imagined undergoing a tough MBA programme. The MBA is worth it if you know what you can gain out of it. It is not an automatic passport to success; it won't bring you instant fame and fortune. For that, my friend, you're going to have to use the grey matter in between your ears. You'll just have some MBA leverage to help you along, that’s all.

[omeng]

Ha!?! :D

[tennisace]

The answer is correct as far as the question posed is concerned. As for a cigar, that I can do without. ;)
Huwaaat? No cigar? It's a Cohiba - the Cuban variety (not Honduran), made famous by Clinton's Oval Office soirees.:lol:

[tennisace]

Just something I read and would be good for those still undecided whether to get an MBA or not


MBA- What is it worth?
by Koon Mei Ching

Very nice.*okay* *okay*

At the risk of being chastised by gnomen, MBA for cutting and pasting:

"History shows that there have been many highly successful business owners who have achieved their lofty goals sans MBA. Think Michael Dell or even Bill Gates. Says George, a senior consultant: "During my decade as a consultant, I met numerous freshly minted MBA's who hadn't been introduced to organisational and operational strategies developed over 30 years ago. Many reported that they learned more in four days with me than in the years it took to complete their MBA." Another MBA taker, Lisa, is in agreement. "Like others who analysed the cost/benefit of an MBA, I have concluded that it is not worth it,” she says. “I already had a Master's degree and after spending a term in one of the leading business schools I decided that the value of the degree is exaggerated. Maybe it is the wrong values being taught where the ultimate goal is getting a high salary. Entrepreneurship involves risk-taking, timing and a feel for the market. You learn these by doing, not by analysing. You can have all the analytical tools in the world but the key ingredients of decision-making and commitment to act on issues are still missing. Some get bogged down with detail while others get stuck with lofty strategies that cannot be implemented."

So, who wants to spend four days with me?:love:

[rabbaddal]

The premise and conclusion are generalizations.

[omeng]

And that's the whole point. :D

[rabbaddal]

/\/\

Which is?:rolleyes:

[omeng]

The premise and conclusion are generalizations.

[rabbaddal]

Good if you see it that way. Then you can tell that the paragraph doesn't help in getting people informed about getting an MBA or becoming an entrepreneur. :D

[FrankNYC]

Btw, what's the typical starting salary for an MBA in Manila.
How about 5 years after graduation.

[gnomen]

Ha?!
And thats the whole point.
Premise and conclusion are generalizations.

galing k Omeng. *** na bang iba??!

[rabbaddal]

Btw, what's the typical starting salary for an MBA in Manila.
How about 5 years after graduation.

Hard to say in the absence of concrete surveys. Most of the Pinoys in my network who returned to the Philippines after studying abroad and working for a while put up their own companies. The ones who continued working in corporations were hired as expats, often under assignment w/in multinationals so their compensation was in line with international standards ($60,000+ / year).

Then you'd have to factor-in pre-MBA experience. Somebody w/ 5 years marketing experience and good track record would probably command a higher pay from a consumer products company than someone with less or no experience in that sector. My rough guess is around US$12,000 to US$15,000 / year for 5 years pre-MBA experience plus MBA, but this could vary widely.

It's easier to track starting salaries in the US or Europe because MBA grads who go to consulting and investment banking start at the same level and pay scale. As for 5 years after graduation, it becomes less clear since job performance will play an even bigger influence in compensation.