Is I.T. Certifications really necessary?

[DisconnectedMX]

is IT certs (like MCAD, MCDBA, etc) really necessary to get a IT job?

I just need second opinion.:bashful:

[kaningbrown]

No.

Communication skills are important, if not more important than those certifications.

[kronikOrpheus]

uhm.... some companies DO require their applicants to be certified... but some or most of them do not...

[DisconnectedMX]

malaki rin kasi magagastos sa mga certs exam.

[TheWookie]

Mahirap kasing pumasa sa mga certification exams kaya yung mga companies they ask if you are "certified" so you won't get scrutinized too much with regards to your skills.

Isang advantage ng certification, there is a salary matrix on how much a "certified professional" is supposed to be paid. So yung mga companies who can't afford the salary demand of a "certified" professional eh ok na sa kanila kahit hindi ka certified, atleast pwede nilang babaan ang salary offer sayo.

[DisconnectedMX]

^So it is true pala na may advantage(salary) *** mga certs. dont know that.

[kaningbrown]

Advantageous, but not necessary. I mean, if a company is willing to get you certified, what the hell right? However, if you're going to get yourself certified on your own resources... that's of another issue.

[DisconnectedMX]

Aside from salary, what are the advantages of being certified?

[kaningbrown]

Bragging rights. Make your industry mates go green with penis envy.

I mean, oh how rewarding will it be to be able to say:

"CISSP certification, Mothertrucker. Do you have it?"

Dont bother with lower certifications tho. They're hardly of any worth nowadays. ^^

[mikki_pretty]

i guess it would be an advantage. lalo na pag bigatin yung company. you can be on the top/priority list if you're applying there.

pero pwede ring pangmayabang kase mahirap ata pumasa dun e!

:chew:

[floreno]

Having a certification is almost a requirement if your planning to apply abroad, especially for US and Singapore Opportunities.

[DisconnectedMX]

Dont bother with lower certifications tho. They're hardly of any worth nowadays. ^^

Is MCAD lower cert?

[zerglings]

Bragging rights. Make your industry mates go green with penis envy.

I mean, oh how rewarding will it be to be able to say:

"CISSP certification, Mothertrucker. Do you have it?"

Dont bother with lower certifications tho. They're hardly of any worth nowadays. ^^

To apply for CISSP certification, you have to be in the IT Security field for quite some time. You just can't make a decision that you want to take the exam tomorrow. That being said, you need to have at least some certification for you to be able to step your foot in the field. Some examples are, Security+, CCSP, and some classes/certifications for securing Linux/Unix and Windows workstations.

Don't bother with lower certifications? Well, which certifications are you talking about? If you're talking about Cisco's Certifications then you got it wrong mate. To be able to get CCIE, you need to take the lower certifications (CCNA, CCNP, CCSP and etc).

Also, taking the entry level certifications would prepare you in the long run. If you don't take it at least read the book dedicated for those certifications. For example, CompTIA A+ would introduce you to basic networking which will help you in CompTIA Net+. Net+ would then prepare you to take CCNA but not necessarily a requirement. However, you'll probably be asking more questions in the class (if you decided not to do the self study) and it is annoying to the people that do know the basic stuff.

Anyways, to answer the question, they're not necessary. However, most companies nowadays are asking for certifications. Reason? Because they're thinking that certified professionals know the stuff. But that's not the usual case. Some certified professionals are known as "paper MCSE" or "paper CCNA" and etc. Meaning, they just passed the required exams but do not really know the stuff.

DisconnectedMX, I am curious, what IT field did you want to get in to? Networking? Security?

[zerglings]

Forgot to mention, if you take CompTIA A+ and Net+ certifications that would serve as an elective for the MCSA or MCSE exams. I forgot which one or maybe both of them. But that's one exam done if you take 2 of them. I understand that you only need to take one elective exam, however, this will give you an edge because you have 2 certifications compared to the one that has taken the MCSA or MCSE only path. And when you finally get your MCSA or MCSE status which one do you think is gonna be more likely to be hired?

[gwaping17]

For fresh grads, someone told me, stick to certifications *okay*

[zerglings]

For programmers, they don't really need certifications, IMO. For people who want to join the Networking, PC Repair, and Security field then I would say start taking certs. Those entry level certifications would at least get you in. And if you can't still get a job, try to go to lower than your ultimate goal. For example, if you want to be a Network Administrator and you can't find a job with that position, then try to apply for an IT Support (not helpdesk - because i think its a st00pid job - sorry for all call center IT). And work your way up.

[lost_in_space]

Our company is hiring, I.T grads to work for a US telco company, position is network engineer, if you are a fresh I.T grad or graduate of any course with networking background, you have a big chance of getting hired, its a good start if you plan to work abroad, like singapore or australia. you will learn to troubleshoot cisco routers, dsl, t1/t3, frame relay, isdn, and many more... pm me if you are interested.

[lost_in_space]

I.T certs is a plus if not a must.. I.T experts are not born, they are certified, most of the companies are looking for certified individuals. Also if you are certified you will have a high chance to get the I.T job that you like vs the one that is only experienced, just make sure that you know your stuff and not just a paper cert.

http://tcpmag.com/features/article.asp?EditorialsID=95

Speaking of I.T certs, I have cbt's, ebooks (mspress,sybex, etc.) for all cisco certs, including the ccsp, also cissp, ceh, microsoft mcp,mcsa,mcse 2000/2003, security+, oracle, linux, and many more.. plus, the programming certs for MS, and PHP/MySQL - PM me if you are interested...

[kaningbrown]

To apply for CISSP certification, you have to be in the IT Security field for quite some time. You just can't make a decision that you want to take the exam tomorrow. That being said, you need to have at least some certification for you to be able to step your foot in the field. Some examples are, Security+, CCSP, and some classes/certifications for securing Linux/Unix and Windows workstations.

Don't bother with lower certifications? Well, which certifications are you talking about? If you're talking about Cisco's Certifications then you got it wrong mate. To be able to get CCIE, you need to take the lower certifications (CCNA, CCNP, CCSP and etc).

Also, taking the entry level certifications would prepare you in the long run. If you don't take it at least read the book dedicated for those certifications. For example, CompTIA A+ would introduce you to basic networking which will help you in CompTIA Net+. Net+ would then prepare you to take CCNA but not necessarily a requirement. However, you'll probably be asking more questions in the class (if you decided not to do the self study) and it is annoying to the people that do know the basic stuff.

Anyways, to answer the question, they're not necessary. However, most companies nowadays are asking for certifications. Reason? Because they're thinking that certified professionals know the stuff. But that's not the usual case. Some certified professionals are known as "paper MCSE" or "paper CCNA" and etc. Meaning, they just passed the required exams but do not really know the stuff.

DisconnectedMX, I am curious, what IT field did you want to get in to? Networking? Security?

Sure, CCNA will be required for advancement to CCIE or what highrank cert you might be taking but how many people do you know get that chance to take CCIE anyway? If you're a fresh grad, I doubt you'd have enough dough to fund yourself all the way to a million peso CCIE training/certification track on your own. Chances are, you'd probably stop at CCNA or CCNP/CCAI because that's where a lot of people stop. And as I've seen it, CCNA on its own isn't worth a lot on the bargaining table - specially when you're not applying for a CISCO Networking heavy position. That's how I see it.

A+ and Net+ aren't needed to prepare you for CCNA (unless you've never really "handled" a computer before). Money spent on getting yourself trained for further training is wasteful when you can jump straight to the actual training you want. But that's just what I think.

[_pinkposh_]

i'm concurring with most of the people who posted.. it's an advantage but not really a requirement if we're talking about hiring people across the IT industry here..

there would be times though that specific positions would really require you to get certified first especially for low supply positions..

[zerglings]

Sure, CCNA will be required for advancement to CCIE or what highrank cert you might be taking but how many people do you know get that chance to take CCIE anyway? If you're a fresh grad, I doubt you'd have enough dough to fund yourself all the way to a million peso CCIE training/certification track on your own. Chances are, you'd probably stop at CCNA or CCNP/CCAI because that's where a lot of people stop. And as I've seen it, CCNA on its own isn't worth a lot on the bargaining table - specially when you're not applying for a CISCO Networking heavy position. That's how I see it.

A+ and Net+ aren't needed to prepare you for CCNA (unless you've never really "handled" a computer before). Money spent on getting yourself trained for further training is wasteful when you can jump straight to the actual training you want. But that's just what I think.

Well, that is true. Most people would stop on CCNP or CCSP. Because the price of CCIE exam is $1000. There are companies out there that would pay for it. Besides, people recommend that you should have a lot of experience in Cisco networking before you even take the CCIE exam.

Like I said, the A+ and Net+ aren't requirements to prepare you for CCNA. However, I do not know everyone's background so I was just giving an idea about it. Yes, you can jump straight to the desired certification. However, some schools are fast paced and if you ask a lot of questions inside the classroom and you are wasting other people's time with your basic questions. That's the reason why I said you should take A+ and Network+ when you know you do not have enough background. I don't exactly know all the requirements for applying in an IT position in the Philippines so I can't say for sure. Also, I do not have any idea of the courses offered in the Universities and Colleges there. Back when I was in college in the Philippines, it was just pure programming. There was no class about how to troubleshooting computers, networking and etc.

Of course, CCNA does not worth a lot in the bargaining table. That's only an entry-level certification in the Cisco world. Experienced people with CCNP are the ones that ask money. Besides, when you are newbie in IT world, you can't really bargain that much. Because you are a newbie! You accept what's on the table because you are craving for experience. Again, that applies here in the US.

[ccass]

if you want to be a Network Administrator and you can't find a job with that position, then try to apply for an IT Support (not helpdesk - because i think its a st00pid job - sorry for all call center IT).

Sorry, I didn't get what mean by this. Are you referring to technical support rep job which would does sounds like a helpdesk job? Average salary for this job runs from 17T up to 25T/ month exclusive of OT and 13th and 14th month pay and that's for an entry-level position. Yeah! It's a high paying stupid job. BTW, if you want to be a TSR you must be able to think fast logically and be able to verbalize the solution you have for the customer on the spot in a very fluid, convincing, intelligible, grammar-error free English language with matching American accent. So...is this the stupid job you are talking about? :hmm:

[elyserva]

20 years ago there's no such thing as certifications and most programmers in Saudi are Filipinos. I was not even a degree holder, much more certified but had a job as a programmer. I actually do systems analysis and programming, BTW. Ngayon, puro IT graduates na ang mga Filipino, bakit puro Indians na ang programmers sa Saudi? :D Bakit kaya? [?]

[DisconnectedMX]

^some of the reasons, dahil malawak/marami na ang oppurtunities. kung pagpipilihin ka middle east ba or australia? ano kaya pipiliin ng pinoy programmers na destination? secondly, kompetensya marami sa middle east pinoys, indians, some egyptians or pakistanis. 3rdly, hindi na malaki ang sweldo dun compare sa ibang bansa, kapatid kong bunso technician lang sa isang european country, multiply his salary to 3, un ang sweldo ng pinsan ko na sa dubai na isang Programmer na nagyayabang na Oracle Certified na daw sya.
Lastly, don't know if this is true, but my former college professor now in Qatar working as BI (dont know that, it's maybe Business Intellegence?) in one of British Firm there told me that they do not prefer indian programmers. Because they found out that in india there is hocus focus in acquiring certs, There are some Exam-for-hire people. kaya maraming programmer na indian dun. again do not know if that is true. they still prefer pinoys.

[PinoySaKSA]

am here in saudi arabia and indians/pakistanis here really brag about their certificates....

yeah, it may make your entry a little faster but the management here proved so many times that they cannot count on it. ang daming pumalpak dito na ang yayabang dahil mga certified na... pagdating sa trabaho, walang-walang sinabi... *** isa nga sinira pa ang isang server...

nowadays, you can observe from employment ads that fewer and fewer companies mention about their preference on applicants with certification...

[PinoySaKSA]

20 years ago there's no such thing as certifications and most programmers in Saudi are Filipinos. I was not even a degree holder, much more certified but had a job as a programmer. I actually do systems analysis and programming, BTW. Ngayon, puro IT graduates na ang mga Filipino, bakit puro Indians na ang programmers sa Saudi? :D Bakit kaya? [?]

Not only Indians but Pakistanis as well... at ang dahilan dyan ay dahil mas marami ngayong Indians/Pakistanis ang napupunta sa Administrative positions and when there is a vacancy, you would expect their preference for their ka-dugo...

Filipinos still get the highest respect with regards to accomplishments...

[zerglings]

Sorry, I didn't get what mean by this. Are you referring to technical support rep job which would does sounds like a helpdesk job? Average salary for this job runs from 17T up to 25T/ month exclusive of OT and 13th and 14th month pay and that's for an entry-level position. Yeah! It's a high paying stupid job. BTW, if you want to be a TSR you must be able to think fast logically and be able to verbalize the solution you have for the customer on the spot in a very fluid, convincing, intelligible, grammar-error free English language with matching American accent. So...is this the stupid job you are talking about? :hmm:

The stupid job that I am talking about is the job that let you read scripts/flowcharts.

Our Technical Support Team does not read flow charts and they do not talk to users. They talk to the technicians, engineers, programmers, and vendors. They are the one who tested and recommended the product before they hit the company's sites.

The helpdesk are the ones that talk to the users and read flowcharts/scripts (in our company). And usually, you don't have to have any computer degree to be part of the team. But then, it really depends on the company.

I'll give you an example, Linksys has a call center somewhere in India and I had to call their Tier 1 Helpdesk or better known as Technical Support. And every time I call and ask them something 9 out of 10 do not know what I am talking about. Linksys is part of a subdivision of Cisco which manufactures networking devices. For crying out loud, if you are going to work in a networking company, you should at least know all the terminologies. And the guy didn't even know what I was talking about. Another one, ISPs here in the USA have their Tech Support too which is the Tier 1 and I hate talking to them because 9 out of 10 they will always say that the problem is either my router or my cable modem which is not!!

You see, each company has different ways to name the positions. The Technical Support on one company can have different scope of work than the TS on another company. So I apologize for not being so crystal clear for you. Forgive me?

[zerglings]

am here in saudi arabia and indians/pakistanis here really brag about their certificates....

yeah, it may make your entry a little faster but the management here proved so many times that they cannot count on it. ang daming pumalpak dito na ang yayabang dahil mga certified na... pagdating sa trabaho, walang-walang sinabi... *** isa nga sinira pa ang isang server...

nowadays, you can observe from employment ads that fewer and fewer companies mention about their preference on applicants with certification...

Certification does not necessarily mean you are an expert, IMO. Though, CCIE and CISSP are I think the ones that really prove that you are an expert. It is a way to prove to the employers that you have the minimum knowledge about a specific product.

Nga lang, kaya nagyayabang mga tao kasi nga na accomplish nilang makuha yung certification. May mga ibang tao jan na kahit hindi certified mas magaling pa sa mga certified dahil sa background nila at experiences. Sometimes nga rip off lang ang certifications eh. Nga lang, most of the job ads here in the US requires you to have one or will atleast give you a chance to be on top of the list of people that will be interviewed.

Chaka sa daming mga taong na-introduce sa computer world eh may mga iba't ibang experiences sila na hindi pa nila nakita. Ang certifications would not really tell you how to troubleshoot specific problems. It will only tell you the basic knowledge on how to troubleshoot certain problems. Though, I haven't taken higher level certifications yet so I wouldn't really know.

[DisconnectedMX]

^zergling to answer ur question kung anong certs ang gusto ko, i am just curious kung gaano ka importanti ang certification. Honestly, hindi sa ayaw pero wala talaga akong plan for certs. i am just old-time programmer (desktop application). Pex lang nagiging outlet ko na at very least i feel na belong din ako sa IT World my passion is here. marami na akong nagawang thread dito sa pex about aligning myself to IT-World where i belong, pero hanggang dun lang un, hayaan mo na lang tumulo ang laway ko sa field nagusto ko pero hindi ko mabalikan. the truth is mas malaki ang income ko sa business ko ***** kaysa bumalik ako sa pagiging programmer. Pero ang passion ko at ang ego ko ay nanjan parin sa IT field particularly programming. Lalo na pag ganitong vacation, nandito lahat mga classmates ko sa college. marami sa kanila malayo na ang narating, nakikita ko sa kanila ang pagiging proud at ang passions ng Problem-solvers. naiinggit ako of course sanay naging programmer din ako or software engineers tulad nila, pero ang alam ko pagkdating sa income parepareho lang kami. iba lang linya ko. despite of that, hindi pa rin nawawala hilig ko sa Programming Discipline, in fact wala akong ibang libangan sa gabi kung di paglaruan ang PHP (web apps) na kinahihiligan ko *****.

but if ever na gusto kong mag take ng cert or mag apply ulit new career, i prefer C#, asp, VB on MS .NET if good salary ang target for enterprise or web dev. Pero for Science and passion ang target, maybe magandang pag aralan at magandang direction ang PHP, Java, Ruby and Ruby on rails, python and the platform is linux, unix... just my humble opinion.

"don't be a one-dimensional fighter, learn more than 1 programming languages"

[Dream_Weaver]

Sorry, I didn't get what mean by this. Are you referring to technical support rep job which would does sounds like a helpdesk job? Average salary for this job runs from 17T up to 25T/ month exclusive of OT and 13th and 14th month pay and that's for an entry-level position. Yeah! It's a high paying stupid job. BTW, if you want to be a TSR you must be able to think fast logically and be able to verbalize the solution you have for the customer on the spot in a very fluid, convincing, intelligible, grammar-error free English language with matching American accent. So...is this the stupid job you are talking about? :hmm:

sounds like a call center guy hehehe.well, it is not really a stupid job,that is quite too harsh choice of word mate. I think the correct choice of phrase is " a dead end carreer". You see "dude" (hehehe, just like the way call center guys talk "dude!"), money is not everything, yeah, you might be getting 17K-25K for an entry level position as a Tech Suppor Rep,but then again, what good will it do for you in the long run. Better bail out as early as you can "dude".And don't put on a game with me saying "bakit?magkano ba sinusweldo mo?". Trust me, you don't wann go there. I don't want you turn all green on envy.My advise, get out of the "call center wagon".Go get a real IT job. No offense meant,but I find MOST (if not all) Call center agents all mighty and high because of thier so called "high salary"(daw!), for all they don't know, it is a dead end carreer.:hmm:

[kaningbrown]

sounds like a call center guy hehehe.well, it is not really a stupid job,that is quite too harsh choice of word mate. I think the correct choice of phrase is " a dead end carreer". You see "dude" (hehehe, just like the way call center guys talk "dude!"), money is not everything, yeah, you might be getting 17K-25K for an entry level position as a Tech Suppor Rep,but then again, what good will it do for you in the long run. Better bail out as early as you can "dude".And don't put on a game with me saying "bakit?magkano ba sinusweldo mo?". Trust me, you don't wann go there. I don't want you turn all green on envy.My advise, get out of the "call center wagon".Go get a real IT job. No offense meant,but I find MOST (if not all) Call center agents all mighty and high because of thier so called "high salary"(daw!), for all they don't know, it is a dead end carreer.:hmm:
No offense, but I honestly thought he was being sarcasting with the salary bit...

[pepsi_7up]

sounds like a call center guy hehehe.well, it is not really a stupid job,that is quite too harsh choice of word mate. I think the correct choice of phrase is " a dead end carreer". You see "dude" (hehehe, just like the way call center guys talk "dude!"), money is not everything, yeah, you might be getting 17K-25K for an entry level position as a Tech Suppor Rep,but then again, what good will it do for you in the long run. Better bail out as early as you can "dude".And don't put on a game with me saying "bakit?magkano ba sinusweldo mo?". Trust me, you don't wann go there. I don't want you turn all green on envy.My advise, get out of the "call center wagon".Go get a real IT job. No offense meant,but I find MOST (if not all) Call center agents all mighty and high because of thier so called "high salary"(daw!), for all they don't know, it is a dead end carreer.:hmm:

not necessarily true....

not all callcenter employees are limited to their main skillset which is primarily call handling and customer service. while other people see this as a "dead end" career, others thrive in the industry, because their sights are not just limited to the IT part, there are also things like operations and project management skillsets that await those who are willing to take up the challenge. *okay* i can say this in confidence because although i started with being in IT (programmer, network admin), a huge chunk of my experience was delved into the outsourcing industry and IMO, i think i'm doing well. im now back with IT but more in the project management side of things.

as for me, i too am inclined to IT certs, as I have some under my belt already. but if i may give my recommendations, i would say that other than taking up IT certs, you would compliment that with business certs as well (PMP, ITIL, and, if capable, Six Sigma). these you really cannot get by being bookish as they require a certain degree of experience and expertise, and money, of course. but if you get even one, it will be all worth it.

so in conclusion, to each his own. take in your certs, but back it up with real world experience so that it'll boost your resume sky high. and as added info, if you want to gauge what certs are best to take, here's a site that compares them side by side:

http://cramsession.com/certifications/compare-certifications.asp

good luck and .....

'nuff said!! :bop: :bop:

[Dream_Weaver]

No offense, but I honestly thought he was being sarcasting with the salary bit...

Not really KaningBrown. I am just trying to prevent the guy to play that game. If you read my post properly, I emphasize for him not to even attempt playing that game on me. I did that because I have witnessed how MOST (again, most, not all) of the Call Center agents thinks and brags about thier "high salary".

O, btw, by posting that, I did not meant to offend you as well.*okay*

[Dream_Weaver]

not necessarily true....

not all callcenter employees are limited to their main skillset which is primarily call handling and customer service. while other people see this as a "dead end" career, others thrive in the industry, because their sights are not just limited to the IT part, there are also things like operations and project management skillsets that await those who are willing to take up the challenge. *okay* i can say this in confidence because although i started with being in IT (programmer, network admin), a huge chunk of my experience was delved into the outsourcing industry and IMO, i think i'm doing well. im now back with IT but more in the project management side of things.

:

Yeah, I do agree with you on this part. But then again, this depends to the person who have involvement in the Call Center field. BTW, just for the record, being a call center agent hardly measure as an "IT Job", it is more of a customer service thing. Going back, it all depend to the person if he have foresight of getting management stature, for which, most of our call center young dude don't aim so much of. Beacause for them, "hey, why should I? I ma already getting a "fat paycheck" on a bi-monthly bases". That is actually what I am trying to point out on my previous post. MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING, they better think of thier future in that carreer path. I am not trying to bash anyone here, I am jsut trying to state the fact the fact for those call center guys, if you can, better go look for another job.


as for me, i too am inclined to IT certs, as I have some under my belt already. but if i may give my recommendations, i would say that other than taking up IT certs, you would compliment that with business certs as well (PMP, ITIL, and, if capable, Six Sigma). these you really cannot get by being bookish as they require a certain degree of experience and expertise, and money, of course. but if you get even one, it will be all worth it.

:

I have nothing against certs, totally agree with you. I myself is in Project Management(Process Owner/SME) in one of the MNC Big 5. And I myself have ITIL cert. So guys, go for the certs, it will always help you in thelong run. Try to get certs though in areas that you really have experience and in a way directly related to your Job. For me, I need ITIL since it is the Industry's Best Practice when it comes to Designing,Developing and Implementing IT based processes and services. I hope to get my ITIL masters level soon.pepsi_7up, are you PMP certified?

Additional Info:
ITIL = Information Technology Infrastructure Library
***ITIL Refresh (Version 3) will be in publication 1st Q of 2007

[DisconnectedMX]

^astig job mo brod ha. ;)

[pepsi_7up]

yup yup....and well worth the wait. plus got my six sigma greenbelt about a month ago....though the thing about it, i'll be bonded for another year. :mecry: but, sacrifices have to made....:rotflmao:

yah, go go go and get certified! just a word of advice again, don't let it go to your head. its true it will open a lot of doors for you but still, a lot of people just get certs by being "testking"-type....have a short story for you about this just to prove a point...

a while back, when i was a part of the project team opening up a new office, since we were starting up, a lot of us were doing multiple jobs, IT, training, and of course, hiring...and being in IT outsourcing...we have a baseline method for interviewing applicants...and one of the questions that we always give candidates after taking an exam was..."how do you gauge your technical skillset, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest, on software, hardware, networking, programming, telecoms....etc etc." and looking at their resumes a bulk of them have like an average of 2 IT certs, and they will proudly say....between 9 and 10.

now, don't get me wrong. im ok with people being able to confidently say that he or she has a high degree of technical know-how, especially in specific fields of IT. confidence is a very subjective thing, though, certs can blind people from a truth known as REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. zergling is was on the button by saying that IT certs is just half of the story, coz there are a lot of people who don't have certs but have an endless supply of experience backing their confidence. and just because it says in your resume your CCNA, A+, Net+ etc etc, does mean your an automatic "10". it just proves that you know diddly squat if you can't even answer a question like, "so, how do you go about creating a PST file in MS Outlook?" (would you believe that people actually answered "..ah, we didn't supported these inquiries, thus we just transferred them to MS or a higher level queue..." to this question?)

i have a ton more of these stories, but i think i that's enough for now. as for me, if you asked the same question about gauging one's ability, i follow a rule of thumb: "underpromise, but overdeliver", coz you'll never know that the person interviewing you knows more than you do until its too late.

works every time if you put yourself on a grade of 6 or 7, and let them be amazed on what you really know AND can do.

'nuff said :bop: :bop:

[Dream_Weaver]

yup yup....and well worth the wait. plus got my six sigma greenbelt about a month ago....though the thing about it, i'll be bonded for another year. :mecry: but, sacrifices have to made....:rotflmao:


That is cool. So you've been doing PM work for quite some time, because in order for you to be at least liggible to take the exam, you have to be someone doing Project Managent work for some time. When I say, "doing project management work" meaning Project manager position, not someone who is just involved in the project, but actually as the PM of the project. Doing the Math, pepsi_7up, I think you are at least in your early 30's. I based this in your previous post in this thread.

"Under promise,over deliver" is a motto of Singapore workforce, are you currently in Singapore pepsi_7Up?:naughty:

[Dream_Weaver]

^astig job mo brod ha. ;)

di naman brod, nasa pagsisikap lang yan. Isa akog hamak na dukha na nagsikap umangat ;) . See my handle? "Dream_Weaver". Sikap lang ang katapat ng lahat. *okay*

[DisconnectedMX]

^at sabayan mo ng mahabang tyaga, sooner or later, you are building your own IT company. :D

one thing i learned from free-lancing which i always applied to my current business is K.Y.O.B. or Kick Your Own Butt habit. pagsinabayan ng tyaga at pagmamahal sa ginagawa, malayo ang mararating.

[narutrix]

having those certifications is a plus in the IT industry, and im planning to get at least two certificates next year...

[pepsi_7up]

That is cool. So you've been doing PM work for quite some time, because in order for you to be at least liggible to take the exam, you have to be someone doing Project Managent work for some time. When I say, "doing project management work" meaning Project manager position, not someone who is just involved in the project, but actually as the PM of the project.

about the eligibility of one to take the PMP exam, one needs to be a part of a project, not necessarily be the project manager, as long as you have some involvement of the project management process (a project track leader or member, for example) and must have a least 4,500 hours experience on said field (roughly 5-6 months, and the project must have taken place within the last 6 years). getting that is easy as long as you are involved in.. lets say, setting up a new office (projects like that usually take up to a year, tops). also one needs at least 35 hours of formal PM education/training. and lastly, one's got to get at least 135 out of 200 questions right (thats 65.8) for them to be able to place the words "PMP certified" on their resumes.

Doing the Math, pepsi_7up, I think you are at least in your early 30's. I based this in your previous post in this thread.

hehe, guess again. i'm just in my late 20's dude. i look older, though. and you're not the only one who overshot at guessing my age (there was one co-worker i had before that told me i looked 37 :mecry:)

"Under promise,over deliver" is a motto of Singapore workforce, are you currently in Singapore pepsi_7Up?:naughty:

that quote was actually part of a list that i saw in the MSN homepage a while back. made a soft copy and it helped me in my time of need. the list is about guidelines on effective time management (its number 3 on the list and, IMO, it should be placed higher). no, im not working in singapore, although i have plans of going abroad, but as of now i'm doing quite well here in the motherland. *okay*

'nuff said:bop: :bop:

[DisconnectedMX]

^anong pinakamabigat na project na handle nyo or that you managed? just curious lang, give a short desciption lang ng project.

[pepsi_7up]

i've been involved in setting up new offices in makati, alabang and in q.c., primarily in the changeover of programs from N.A to the Phil., also in CI and T&D program development.

DisconnectedMX, if i may be so bold, do you work at IBM?

[DisconnectedMX]

:) No, I am not working in IBM. late 90s and sa 2000, i was just a humble free-lance programmer (desktop application development). but i don't do it anymore. I am self-employed, hindi na konektado sa IT ang business ko.

malayo nga narating mo :D at saka nasa late 20's ka pa.

30 here, amoy lupa na :lol:

curious lang ako sa mga projects ***** ng mga software developers/engineers... dahil minsan pinangarap ko rin maging katulad nyo. Too bad, commited na ako sa business kokaya *** mabalik balikan ang pagiging programmer.

[pepsi_7up]

^^it's never to late to get into projects. in fact, everyday things you do are considered projects. they have agenda, timelines, budget, risk assessments, and contigencies, just like a full-fledged project has. PMP's just a title. yah, it sounds nice, but if don't have what it takes to be in a project, its not worth the paper that its printed on. ;)

you already are in the big leagues. to be able to have a business of your own is something that i, as of now, don't have the courage to set up. kudos to you, my fellow PEXer. *okay*

How about you Dream_Weaver? Noticed in one of your replies that you are working as a Process Owner/SME. Was a PO at HP before. You working with them?

'nuff said!! :bop: :bop:

[zerglings]

@ DisconnectedMX --- ah.. programmer.. hehehe.. most of the jobs that i've seen so far in Dice, HotJobs, CareerBuilder, Monster and etc do not require certified programmers... they just want people that have a lot of experience.. in my opinion, you don't really need to be certified on these programming languages unless they really just specialized on one programming language...

i concur on the "don't be one-dimensional fighter, learn more than 1 programming language" there are bunch of jobs out there that require you to have experiences on more than 1 programming language... i actually want to learn on Juniper Networks' networking devices since there are companies out there that not only have Cisco networking devices... and i have to learn more about unix/linux since our company doesn't just support Microsoft...

about the guy talking about testking... i agree with you too... there are a lot of people out there that are called "paper MCSE, CCNA and/or etc"... meaning, they possess the certificate but do not necessarily know the technology.. what i normally do is, read the necessary books that will give you all or most of the required knowledge to pass the certification and read available study guides... and i actually like to taking classes that are recommended to get certified... that way, i can tell to myself that i didn't pass the certification because i was just reading the materials that are close the exam questions... i passed the exams because i studied for it with the right way...

the guy that was commenting about the what i said "stupid job"... yes, i have to agree with you that i guess i was harsh on what i said... it is a decent job but not really an ideal job if you really want to enter the IT field... when, i was looking for an IT related job.. i've never once consider to apply on Tech Support, Help Desk, Desktop Support and etc... it is just not my thing... i'd like to see what i am working on.. i don't like to imagine the screen and etc.. also, i have a hard time believing people that they're actually telling me the truth... not really a dead end job... the current Network Control Center Manager where I work started his career as an Assistant Store Manager then moved to call center. From there, I guess he liked the networking better than anything else and decided to move to that department.... actually, my colleague is moving to Illinois and going to be our Tech Support (which in our company do not talk to end-users... they only talk to IT Support, programmers, and etc) and he'll be making more money than us IT Support people... just to add an additional info, our Help Center (Call Center for end-users) have a high turnover rate and does not necessary mean that they're currently taking computer courses... they're just there to read scripts and escalate the problem to the right department..

[Dream_Weaver]

How about you Dream_Weaver? Noticed in one of your replies that you are working as a Process Owner/SME. Was a PO at HP before. You working with them?
'nuff said!! :bop: :bop:

Nope, I am not with HP. Though, I used to be with HP on my 3rd year of my stint in IT. Yes, I am a Process Owner of one of the ITIL methodologies of a Detroit (US) based company. BTW pepsi_7up,We're both on the same late 20's bandwagon.

Regarding DisconnectedMX's question, my biggest project so far is managing the design,development and implementation of one of the ITIL Best practices to AP&A (Asia Pacific and Africa) region for a big five company.

Anyways, great going there Pepsi_7up.

And "the guy" up there ^^^, read again bro, and learn to read between the lines. You make me laugh...in a way.:lol:

[DisconnectedMX]

^bigat mga projects nyo mga 'tol... no wonder na dito na sa pinas bumabagsak ang mga project na ina outsource from US of A. nakakachallenge at nakakamotivate.
Pero pansin ko lang ***** bumababa ang kumukuha ng Computer Science sa mga Universities, ng dahil kaya mas kaakitakit ang Nursing?

[robert_s_huxley]

guys, any info/comment para sa career path ng software test engineer(NOT developer). Basically we break down programs and try to look for bugs, kinda like quality checking.

[cvgt2]

what's the job vacancy ratio of IT-Pros compared to IT-developers?

[Mr_Peeg]

How about SAP certifications? Has anyone here taken and passed these? I hear they're pretty expensive, around P20,000 to P25,000 per take, unless your company sponsors you. I'm planning to take the exam for SAP-ABAP certification this year, it's gonna cost a lot and it's probably pretty difficult but I think having an SAP certification on my resume will greatly increase my chances of getting work abroad.

[pepsi_7up]

@robert_s_huxley -> software QA work to me, debugging and all that jazz, will still boil down to development. my advice, still go with software development to broaden your horizon. your background as a software test engineer will really help you in this field, since you already know how to break programs down to code.

@Mr_Peeg -> SAP's very nice, especially if you're in the development part. i know several acquaintances that earn a lot by being a SAP user (HP and Accenture has a lot of divisions that use SAP), how much more if you really know it inside out by being an SAP developer? if you can find a more cost-effective way in learning SAP, i say go for it. you might also find oracle and .net programming a good alternative. java's pretty good as well.

[DisconnectedMX]

yeah I heard it too SAP is very much attractive these days.

[persocon]

[ Hi PEX! My debut post after almost 3 years of not posting ]

anyway back to topic...

I think IT Certification is not necessary.
Rather, an licensure for the type of IT Career you want is necessary.

(I will only be covering the Software Development / Architecture / Systems Analysis industry, as I am from this industry)

Here are a couple of caveats with resorting to certification:
1) Development tools change almost every year, which makes your certification technically worthless, causing you (or your organization) to spend needlessly on re-education.

2) Question of competence - I can't exactly remember all the previous posts but there were a couple which were mentioning about people with actual experience owning people who are certified but have no actual experience. This is very true. I remember a time where we hired a certified java developer and agreed to a high payhe demanded because we really needed to meet a deadline, but in the end the person couldn't deliver so we fired him soon after, only to hire another person who wasnt certified but had 4 solid years of experience and accomplished the task quite easily.

After that experience, it made me question the credibility of having a certification versus someone stating solid years of experience in something despite not having a certification.

3) Screwed viability of certification - thank testking and all those other materials that breeze you through certification of whatever, you can now acquire the knowledge that certified people know, without being certified. But for people who plan to be corporate lifers, then go ahead and get that piece of paper. You'll need the money.

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but the IT solutions development industry isn't where the big money is, so if you went into this industry for the money, a lot of other industries make more money that we do. Most people who enjoy working in the IT soultions dev industry are who those with a passion to create value and see people's lives improve through that value you create - in this case -- an IT solution.

------------------------------------------------

Actually I think everyone who wants to be in the software development should take a licensure exam for a specific development technology you want to work in (something like the medical licensure exam). These are the reasons:

1) To have a formal system accepted by society - Doctors have their licensure exam, Lawyers have their bar exams, Engineers have their board exams, why is the software engineer not having one?
Anyone, as in anyone can claim to be a developer, but in the world out there, it all boils down to - CAN YOU DELIVER? I have met so many people who are developers or claim to be, sure they can code, but they don't know why this certain thing is necessary, and how to fix things when their project leader is not around. They usually get around work by copying from examples but not know why or how.

2) Mistakes are very expensive - In the IT Solutions development world, hiring the wrong people (or people with insufficient skills) end up being lost sales or low profit margins. While this is true in every business, this is doubly true in the IT industry, because it is not a cash business. Day 1 pa lang ng project start mo, you're bleeding operating expenses and you won't have a sale unless you meet a deadline, and if you miss it, regardless of the reason, your client will not pay.

3) Base confidence - if there was a license to be a software development business, then I wouldn't need to look for someone with certification. I would rather ask about a candidate's years of experience and "what did you do?" in a stint, because there is the basic confidence that I'm hiring someone who passed the IT licensure exam (he/she knows his stuff).

-----------------------------------------------------

@robert_s_huxley - It is recommended that you don't be a programmer - this way, your testing becomes less biased. As in purely end-user testing only. But if you're talking about testing code in itself, uh yeah, you have to be a programmer. What happens in companys nowadays is they hire people who aren't programmers to test (as in totally independent entities even).

Software QA is a growing industry here in PI because companies are slowly realizing the need for strong software quality assurance.

[Mr_Peeg]

@persocon
- Well, yeah, I.T. certs aren't really necessary. But suppose there are 2 applicants for a job that seem equal in every aspect: academics, work experience, interview performance... but one of them is certified, while the other isn't. Of course, they'll go with the certified guy, right? That's what I want, even if it's just a piece of paper, at least I have some sort of edge over other uncertified applicants.

[DisconnectedMX]

welcome back persocon. nice post ;)

[jon1432000]

hi everyone...i am a middle mgt level banker for an Asian Based Bank.. however i am really interested in shifting to i.t ... in the coming months - i'll be taking php lessons, basic networking... linux network admin... then forensic (i forgot the course name) and finally certified ethical hacking.. all in all the cost would be around P150k.. the last two in fact is around P40k/each. are these courses enough?

[malfoy2k]

^jon1432000 , where do you plan to take those courses?

[fwwizards]

In REAL World of IT, Experienced is a MUST!!
CERT is a PLUS!!.

[ALvs]

Can anyone please present a sort of "road map" when it comes to IT. Which do I have to study for first, in terms of priority. Also, what schools can I go to for IT?

I'm in the publishing business and I want to shift to IT :)

[DisconnectedMX]

^nice question. a road map.

[ALvs]

Access
VB.NET
PLF
C
Java
PHP

<-- Is this okay? :)

[mitsui2050]

Hello my friends,

I am very insterested in obtaining a PMP certificate. Could anyone tell me what is the process, how much I need to spend and where can I take the exam or a PMP resource website where all my questions could be answered?

In addition, what is Six Sigma?

[pretenred1]

ako naiinis and somewhat frustrated about it certifications na yan
kasi most of the IT jobs right now prefers with IT cert
ang mahal kaya!
then when you asses (tama ba spelling ko!)
your self, shi!t i'm a programming goddess I can shift from
various languange name it i know it can program it......
its just that I do not have the certification they prefer
and they will not give the rate that i offer (because for the
reason i lack certification) and worst i walang job offer,
inisip ko na lang na ang nakuha ko ay yung may cert.....
tsk tsk tsk
haaayy!

[mitsui2050]

Hello,

Up ko lang po.. Sana yung mga PMP certified na, please share naman how to get certified.

[erickun]

Hello people. I'm planning to get a training for CCNA and get certified hopefully afterwards this July. I have inquired at the following centers. Trendsnet, New Horizons, Rivan systems, Global Knowledge, Fujitsu Knowledge Center and Infotech Xchange. Some offer boot camps which only takes 5 days and is definitely much cheaper than the others which offers the INTRO and the ICND courses which takes two weeks and is expensive. Has anyone taken this training on any of these centers? Is it worth it to spend as much as twice on this or just get the boot camps. Whats the difference? What's the best value for money? Any suggestions/opinions would be greatly appreciated. :)