Traditional Chinese Medicine ( Please read first post)

[smilewarrior]

(Disclaimer: This is not an endorsement. It is up to you as an individual to decide if you are willing to subject yourself to Traditional Chinese Medicine. If you're more comfortable sticking to conventional Western Medicine, then please do so. )

Please limit the discussions in this thread to the following:

1. What is traditional Chinese medicine ?
2. Who practices tradional Chinese medicine?
3. How does one go about becoming a Chinese Medicine practitioner? Are there training centers here or abroad?
4. Is there a regulating body here in the Philippines that oversees traditional Chinese medicine?
5. What are the advantages and disadvantages of submitting oneself to Traditional Chinese Medicine?

*I do know that some practitioners of Traditional Chinese medicine here in the Philippines are also legitimate licensed doctors (meaning they’ve studied Western Medicine from a University, passed the PRC licensure examination for physicians, then took further studies such as taking a residency in Traditional Chinese Medicine at a foreign university / Chinese University). This gives them the rather unique opportunity to give (well, at least I think it does) “balanced treatment” – should traditional Chinese medicine be ineffective, they could always switch to conventional Western medicine. Also, they would be prudent enough to know when to refer to another doctor for the patient's sake.

How about the danger of masking a serious condition?

What if the pain is actually a condition that requires immediate lifesaving surgery? What if the malignant tumor is still curable by immediate removal? What if it all ended up with treatment failure when all that was needed was a pill that was just there in the drugstore?

These are very legitimate issues that confront me everyday. Many times, the answers are clear-cut. Bacterial infections must be treated with antibiotics. Life-threatening conditions, life support and most emergencies belong to western medicine. But there are gray areas. Here, I use the best of both worlds. I review all the existing laboratory and diagnostic work-up. If necessary, I get additional laboratory examination and refer for further diagnostic work-up. I keep up-to-date with the latest in the field. And I maintain a database of all the pertinent medical documents the patient has. But nothing beats frequent regular dialogue with the patient and/or his/her family regarding options, as well as keeping an effective network with other medical specialties. For when one deals with the illness of an individual, one deals with the innermost hopes and fears. And this is such a huge responsibility that I alone may not be able to bear at times. I seek help from other experts who may be in a better position to help my patient.

For as far as I know, acupuncture is now being more accepted as an adjunct for control of pain. Whether it can help with other health problems is something I am not sure of.

If you’d like to mention a specific practitioner, please limit it to:
1. Practitioner’s name
2. Hospital to which the practitioner is affiliated to ( no mention of the names of private clinics, please)

Important reminders for this thread:
1. No landline numbers
2. No e-mail addresses
3. No exact physical addresses
4. No links to private websites
5. No links to personal blogs
6. No text speak ( please use correct spelling when posting here )
7. Absolutely no selling


Happy holidays.

[susmariosep]

Time and again I have read from critics of traditional Chinese medicine that their successes are all to be found in anecdotal accounts which are thus anecdotal evidence, and therefore not to be taken seriously.


First, what exactly is an anecdotal account or an anecdotal evidence which is the ground why critics of traditional Chinese medicine dismiss the successful healing done by the practitioners of this trade or craft or art or skill or kind of medicine?


I will look up the web for this question and return here. Please also anyone interested in this topic, do so likewise; and all of us do some honest exacting thinking.



Susmariosep

[vAleR]

hmmm... yung kaklase ko po dati nagpa acupuncture nung may dengue(how do you spell it) i don't know the full details.. i'll ask him. pero ayun po gumaling din siya

my mom practices accupressure. which is kinda like accupuncture but without needles.. just by the pressure from the fingers. which is also quite effective i believe. she has treated many patients which experienced stroke, frozen shoulder,etc. yung mga tipong di na po makagalaw. basta madami pa po. ang course naman po niya ay Physical therapy. then ayun nag-aral ata siya ng accupressure, shiatsu, though i'm really not sure of.

anyways. yun po... thats what i can share.

hehe kahit ako nga po eh. since bata kasi ako hinihilot lang ako ni mommy pag may sakit. iinom lang ng gamot or pupunta sa doctor pag busy siya... or kelangan ng immidiate relief. which is kahit papano na absorb ko mga ways niya, yung mga movements ng kamay niya, kung saan yung mga pressure points,etc. hehe kahit di ko po alam yung tawag sa ganyan ganito.:lol: pure experience lang talaga. then i applied it to my lola. last week yun. binisita namin sya. wow:eek: .. di mamove ang neck, hirap siyang tumayo, magsalita,no facial expressions. parang namild stroke ata. :( i'm not sure. hinilot ko siya applying yung mga naabsorb ko sa hilot ni mommy. after one week. nakaattend pa siya ng kasal ng pinsan ko which is yesterday! mainit na ang katawan niya. maganda itsura niya nakangiti.:D naglalakad siya magisa.. at she's really alive and kicking compared sa una naming visit sa kanya na malamig ang balat, di makakilos ng maayos. kelangan ng kasama pag naglalakad, nanginigitim ang mga paa at kamay(i believe blood circulation was improved also) :D

yun lang po mashashare ko. sana i did contribute something kahit papaano. :bashful: hehe:rotflmao:

Merry Xmas and Happy New year po!!

[smilewarrior]

^ Dude, I had dengue fever several years back. I would have died if I hadn't received a blood transfusion.

I do know that acupuncture has some practical applications for pain control, but for something like dengue, I'm doubtful if it could actually help.

[vAleR]

yeah like i told you... i'm not sure...

maybe nagpablood transfusion din sya...

then namention nya din ang acupuncture...

thought i'd just share :)

[smilewarrior]

Okay. Happy holidays.

[leeang]

Traditional eastern medicine existed thousand years na, so meron basis talaga. Ang problem kung paano mo iistandardized. Like you have to take several mg several times a day.
Maraming regular doctors ang naniniwala na sa ganyan, dati maraming ayaw pero today dumadami ng mainstream ang nag-aadvocate na pagsamahin yung chinese sa totoong medical practice. Me endorsement na nga sa tv yung iba. Si Dr. Memet Oz nga ni Oprah Winfrey one time explained yung connection ng accupressure ng foot doon sa vision problems ng patient. Basta for me mas maganda pagsamahin both Eastern and western (yung regular) treatment.

happy New Year to everyone.

[JazonEsti]

I know of several doctors, including a leading molecular oncologist in the Philippines and abroad, who use TCM in the treatment of their patients.

Contrary to popular belief, some TCM are now being tested and manufactured using western standards. I myself (a physical therapist) was surprised and impressed when a friend showed me a standardized Ling Zhi (Reishi mushroom) capsule which has clinical studies. The studies prove what the Chinese have known all along for hundreds of years: consumption of Ling Zhi enhances the immune system. Western studies show that the standardized capsules can induce the proliferation of natural killer cells of the body to fight pathogens.

[smilewarrior]

^ Standardized testing? I guess it's about time:

(from CA: A Cancer Journal for Clinicians, 2001)
THE TERM "COMPLEMENTARY" and "ALTERNATIVE METHODS"

(CAM) refers to products and regimens that individuals may employ either to enhance health and well being or to cure disease. Complementary therapies are used along with mainstream care to manage symptoms, relieve stress, and enhance quality of life. In contrast, alternative methods are used instead of evidence-based medical therapy. The dangers inherent in bogus alternatives are two-fold: First, they may cause direct harm, and second, they may be ineffective, resulting in disease progression.

“NATURAL” DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN “SAFE”

Any physiologically active substance, whether synthesized and manufactured or naturally occurring, has the potential to cause adverse effects.

[susmariosep]

Time and again I have read from critics of traditional Chinese medicine that their successes are all to be found in anecdotal accounts which are thus anecdotal evidence, and therefore not to be taken seriously.


First, what exactly is an anecdotal account or an anecdotal evidence which is the ground why critics of traditional Chinese medicine dismiss the successful healing done by the practitioners of this trade or craft or art or skill or kind of medicine?


I will look up the web for this question and return here. Please also anyone interested in this topic, do so likewise; and all of us do some honest exacting thinking.




Well, this is what I found to be anecdotal evidence, from web sources, in my own few essential words: it is the testimony of a person to the existence of a fact.

In the context of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), the fact concerned is a healing to a health problem: whether a person with a situation of bodily or mental so much as unpleasantness has gotten rid of that situation.

At the present point of my reading what I observe is that criticism against TCM is substantially centered on the unacceptability of anecdotal evidence as proof of its efficacy.

But there is no interest on the part of critics to honestly investigate whether a healing in fact took place for a person claiming to have been healed by a practitioner of TCM.

Critics usually argue by first reminding their readers that the report of a healing with TCM is a piece of anecdotal evidence, and since anecdotal evidence is not acceptable in science, therefore the conclusion in wholesale scale, TCM is not of any genuine efficacy.


What I would like to read are honest exacting investigations of the facts of people who do get well from practitioners of TCM, then explanations on a scientific approach to the facts.


Susmariosep

[cutedoc]

if you notice the TCM trend they are going global, their approach tend to be hollistic

TCM can be divided and be classified into many ways like:
a) herbal medicines = if you trace back the history of these herbal conconction, it is not only chinese who do them, even pinoy, indian and even american do them, however they only rename them like in western culture they call them home remedy, for example you have a sore throat,
chinese medicine : you will take pei pa koa
western home remed : apple cider vinegar with honey
traditional pinoy : luya

if you think of it, or if science enters the picture, the components used are the basic foundation in making what is inside your pill

b) acupuncture/ reflexology / massage /hilot = these eithe rblocks the passage of pain, or stimulates the nerve endings to transmit impulses for the brain to act upon.

c) cure all potions = noni juice, gac fruit, aloe vera, vco and others

if you extract what is inside the tablet or any drug that you are taking, surely there will be a common denominator between those pharmacy bought drug with these herbal medicines, though i am not generelizing it, but surely the etiology of drugs is basically the mixture of potent conconction our ancestors made.

word of caution:
1. do not depend solely on TCM especially if the disease you had contacted is quite dangerous;

2. do not mix TCM and western drug, you might mask the potency of each and be misled of what really cured you;

3. stick with the pros, even if TCM there are pros in it, dont juggle you life with a fly by night herbalist

[susmariosep]

1. do not depend solely on TCM especially if the disease you had contacted is quite dangerous;


I just add that in an emergency where if you don't get treatment that has been proven to be immediately effective as to stay the hands of death which are knocking loudly and violently at your door of life, conventional or scientific medicine is what you should really and pronto con expresso repair yourself to.

For example, in an appendicitis, or a bullet wound in your chest close to the heart, or a heart attack.


Then also TCM is no substitute whatsoever when the only proven treatment is surgical invasion of your body and even inside your skull in the brain. This is the area where TCM is totally helpless.

What TCM is good at is with chronic non-immediately killing medical problems, like as I mentioned two times already, an upper eyelid that will not stay up but is always in a collapsed position, which conventional doctors are also themselves baffled with, as to confess themselves at their wit's end.


But it is not only with seemingly cosmetic matters, but also serious complaints like even cancer of the liver, socalled end stage kidney disease, or mild stroke of the brain -- forgive the terminology if I don't get it right.

Just the same, since it takes relatively a longer time for TCM to act and complete its task successfully, you must may sure that you stay alive while undergoing TCM treatment for your complaint; and this is where conventional medicine is indispensable, namely, to keep you alive as long as possible with laboratory proven procedures and substances.



Now, does anyone know of any studies of the facts of healing in TCM and attempts to explain them on a scientific basis?


Susmariosep

[JazonEsti]

Of course, given that most TCM is used for prevention and long term benefits, it should hardly surprise anyone that in emergency and life-threatening chronic situations, the immediate benefits of western medicine is more appropriate.

Now, does anyone know of any studies of the facts of healing in TCM and attempts to explain them on a scientific basis?
Here are two articles in Pubmed concerning Reishi (Ling Zhi) and its benefits in preventing proliferation of highly invasive forms of breast and prostate cancer.
Ganoderma lucidum suppresses motility of highly invasive breast and prostate cancer cells. (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&db=PubMed&list_uids=12408995)
Biologic activity of spores and dried powder from Ganoderma lucidum for the inhibition of highly invasive human breast and prostate cancer cells. (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14499024?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus)
Actually, there are a LOT of Pubmed articles regarding Reishi and its various benefits. A quick search also reveals a LOT of articles concerning green tea and Cordyceps, two popular TCM.

[susmariosep]

There have been and are ongoing studies of specific herbs used by traditional Chinese doctors, and have been found to be efficacious for particular health problems. That is very good for people who do resort to traditional Chinese doctors prescribing herbs.

But traditional Chinese doctors do not use only one herb, they usually use several herbs for the same complaint; and certainly the combination of these herbs is the reason why the end health problem is remedied in the course of time, which is not however like taking an aspirin and your routine headache is with 90% probability soon relieved.

I am talking about this Chinese herbal doctor who is also into setting bones, etc., but not burning of paper money or telling people how to arrange their furniture or warning people against saying something positive about a child because the child could become thereby sickly -- you get the idea everyone here in this thread.


I was in his location yesterday afternoon to talk with some people waiting to be ministered to by this Chinese doctor.

First, I heard that he has been practicing for over twenty years in this country, and was brought here by the owner of a Chinese drugstore -- think owners of restaurants getting Chinese cooks from HongKong to work for them here.

Please don't get the idea that I am endorsing him or better trying to recruit people to see him so that I will get a percentage from him for every recruit I obtain for him; can we not just prescind from that suspicion otherwise we can never get to do any productive exchange among us; and that is the trouble with negativistic critics of alternative Chinese medicine practitioners, they always approach them as scam artists, while conventional practitioners with an MD and licensed by the PRC are not above being scam artists themselves, if critics apply their definition of scam artist on these latters.

Anyway, what I want to report here is that I talked with a woman carrying a baby in her arms, visibly a Pinay from the simple folks, i.e., financially hard-up. No, she is not the patient but her husband is, for kidney trouble with creatinine now over 1000; he can't move about anymore that's why she was here for him. How's that...? Here's how and why.


Months earlier the husband was into dialysis with creatinine the same as now over 1000 notwithstanding the dialysis, then people referred them to this Chinese doctor who was able with herbs to bring down the creatinine to 300.

This guy during the Christmas season ate one piece of lechon skin, and he is supposed according to the wife to have his creatinine shoot up back to over a 1000, that he can't move about any longer.

Sound like a fishy story?


Being a thinking person, I would say that the guy didn't just eat a piece of lechon skin, he must have eaten lechon and other meat foods days on end; the wife just didn't want people to see that the husband gorged on lechon, and also maybe being so admiring of the Chinese doctor she unknowingly wanted to make it appear that the Chinese doctor was going to do some terrific cure with that louse of a husband, who is in fact so bad off, that with one bite of lechon skin his creatinine shot up again to over 1000 from 300.

Anyway that is her story.

So, finally her number was called, #28, and I expected the Chinese doctor to bawl her out for not bringing that louse of a husband with her even by wheelchair. Sorry for calling the guy a louse, but he definitely fits the picture of those useless bumps among our menfolk in this country: not employed, drinking every evening, and then killing each other in the course of drinking, etc.

The woman told the doctor that the guy could not come because he could not move about anymore, but she described him as now with a lab finding of over 1000 in creatinine and his urine is pula (for people not knowing Pilipino, pula means red) and that he ate a piece of lechon skin. she also returned to the doc the prescription given by the doc himself on their last visit -- that is the procedure for returning patients, to bring back the prescription paper from your last visit.

No, the doc didn't bawl at the woman carrying a baby, contrary to my expectation. He just read the prescription from himself of the last visit, then started writing a new prescription, and the woman was all smile, believing that with the herbs now prescribed for her husband his creatinine would be brought down again to perhaps 300 or even lower.


You have to talk with the patients waiting and also do inspection of what the doc is doing, and listen to the ongoing in that very public place in a room of a building where the corridor is full of people, young, old, rich, poor, ugly most of them, well not sexy, in order to get what exactly should be understood from an anecdotal account which is indeed serious evidence in re traditional Chinese medicine, so as not to dismiss off-hand such reports as of no serious scientific significance.


Now, this is my insight into traditional Chinese medicine in regard to harmful effects from the combination of herbs: the herbs are intended to effect a cure, but they certainly have unwanted effects which can even kill you; still the honest and sincere practitioner knows, that is why he does not I am sure prescribe any same combination repeatedly over months on end, being aware that before the beneficial result comes in the patient could have died first from the deadly side effects in a cumulated volume as to kill the patient.

Otherwise those herbs intended to produce the beneficial effect at most cause you loose bowel movement, which is some kind of colonic cleansing that I seem to surmise as being one instrumental procedure of traditional Chinese medicine.

Once I heard him telling a patient, not once but now and then, that the herbs he prescribes will bring about recurring loose bowel and if the patient gets too tired, he can take a leave of absence from the herbs, and then resume with the herbs until his next visit to the doctor which is usually after finishing all the herbs, around four to five days.


I heard him also telling a new patient who was asking how many times he should see the doc, with a smile but loud voice: If you want to ask that question better you don't come here.


Well, this is my contribution for this time, and I will report again when I have some more observations and reflections.

Disclaimer: What I write here is not intended to move people to see the Chinese doctor I am talking about, but just for the sake of exchange of information and ideas and getting feedback from others with similar experiences, in order that we can get a better grasp of what this traditional Chinese medicine is all about, that many are going for it.



Susmariosep

[smilewarrior]

^I need to say this: You cannot write prescriptions unless you have a medical/dental/veteranary license.

[susmariosep]

The prescription is in Chinese and the patient can choose either herbs to be brewed at home by the patient himself in a glass or porcelain vessel, or already manufactured tablets, pills, etc., to be bought in Chinese drugstores; but if you ask him he will refer you to one which I suspect himself to be part-owner or getting some consideration, read that money, for referring customers.

When you go to that drugstore of his reference, you will see Pinay sales personnel, pure Pinays who can't speak Chinese but can read the prescription, and get the herbs and measure them and pack them into batches for brewing one batch at a time for each day's use.


If you think this is amazing, then you should go to Tomas Mapua corner Recto, a few corners from the Chinese doctor's location, and observe the much patronized by Chinese, Funeraria Paz, where you will come across Pinoys writing Chinese characters on big long cloth streamers which decorate the funeral parlor rooms.

Now, if you still want to see something interesting and therefore enjoyable as I am enjoying myself writing about it, hang around at the funeraria, and if you are lucky you might be treated to a concert of Chinese music played with Chinese musical instruments. Now, listen to this, look at the players, they are not Chinese, but Pinoy kids who were trained by Chinese mentors I presume; and boy can they play, and without any conductor much less any musical scores -- they perform from memory.


That is what I do for recreation and entertainment, going places and seeing things and peoples and events in this otherwise God-forsaken country of ours.


By the way, the Chinese doctor suggests that patients buy herbs instead of finished medicine tablets, pills, etc., because herbs are more efficacious and act faster than already manufactured medicinal confections.


Susmariosep

[smilewarrior]

^ If it's in Chinese, then most likely a Filipino patient who is not familiar with written Fukien or Mandarin won't be able to read it. :(

[Bchemist]

I am totally lost reading this thread. It is all over the place.

Herbs are very powerful as are their extracts and are used in both Western and Chinese medicine.

But the problem with Chinese medicine is that I've never seen any evidence that it is standardized.

I mean, who tests it?

Who purifies it?

At a bare minimum I'd like to be able to research an herb I'm taking.

Valerian root is a very effective alternative to sedatives like Valium. Ma Huang is basically as powerful as ephedrine. Then there's tribbulus terristis that boosts sperm count and potency, Maca root, Hoodia for appetite suppressesant, Green Tea and Black Tea for thermogenic and metabolic boosting properties, and on and on.

There are many others, but at least they are backed by research and testing, and can even be standardized for purity. I've been into Chinese medicine stores and I've even asked for some things I've not written here. Of course, they try to sell me something that I know that it's not possible that they would have, since it's a test. It's as the poster wrote above, these people are non-chinese speakers despensing non-standardized herbs.

Again, I'm all for TCM, but some form of standardization and controls should be in place...otherwise you have no guarantee AT ALL of what you are putting into your body, and sometimes the doctors themselves are at the mercy of their own suppliers.

[susmariosep]

That Chinese drugstore I am talking about has genuine Pinay girls of the provincial variety, no highschool certification most probably, but they are sure to have a good mind and a good heart also, meaning bright and honest and hardworking.

They are not dispensing the Chinese herbs, but getting them from the shelves and drawers and even from inside behind in the storage of the shop, and measuring them, and packaging them into batches in plastic transparent bags each to be brewed for one day supply.

No, that is not dispensing, it is like the Mercury Drug personnel turning over to you as you pay the store, the medicines as prescribed in name and in dosage size and in quantity of purchase, both proprietary and/or generic as regards source of origin and manufacture.

You know what, I ask Mercury sales persons regularly what medicine that can be bought over the counter is good for what complaint and which is most cost efficient, meaning, cheap and effective and safe.

And they will tell you, those Mercury Drug girls and guys behind the sale counter, because being bright and honest and good or willing to be helpful to fellow humans in need for being in distress of a medical or health problem, they will come to your assistance -- and there is nothing wrong there, not in inter-human relations and actions, and not with the law.


The same also with those intelligent and honest and good Pinay girls in that Chinese drugstore and most of the Chinese drugstore in Chinatown, Ongpin and near about, can tell you what confected medicinal tablets, pills, ointment, etc. to buy for what ills, but not the herbs.

Yes, they have been trained to read and to act in accordance with the prescription of the Chinese doctor written in Chinese. That is how bright they are, they can learn and learn fast and effectively.

Now, this is what the owner of that drugstore told me, those girls are so good, they also take herbs themselves when they feel something wrong with their body and mind system, and they get well also. That is how bright and resourceful these girls are.

If you guys here work in a Chinese drugstore and you have also the kind of intelligence and industry of these provincial girls without a highschool diploma, I am sure you will end up a very good Chinese doctor of the herbal tradition.


Susmariosep

[JazonEsti]

But the problem with Chinese medicine is that I've never seen any evidence that it is standardized.

I mean, who tests it?

Who purifies it?

At a bare minimum I'd like to be able to research an herb I'm taking.
Ah, but there is. I don't want to mention names, but there's a company that standardizes their products, the active ingredients through techniques such as liquid chromatography. It created the green tea product with the highest level of polyphenols (97%) with clinically no caffeine. It also standardized reishi to contain 13% triterpenes and polysaccharides. It employs 75 PhDs and 125 scientists, unprecedented in the industry.

It's no surprise because its founders were a former new drug development for Merck with over 30 patents credited to him, and the co-inventor of the anti-histamine.

I hope that helps.

[Bchemist]

Ah, but there is. I don't want to mention names, but there's a company that standardizes their products, the active ingredients through techniques such as liquid chromatography. It created the green tea product with the highest level of polyphenols (97%) with clinically no caffeine. It also standardized reishi to contain 13% triterpenes and polysaccharides. It employs 75 PhDs and 125 scientists, unprecedented in the industry.

It's no surprise because its founders were a former new drug development for Merck with over 30 patents credited to him, and the co-inventor of the anti-histamine.

I hope that helps.


This post does help, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for them in that hopefully I'll figure out what company you are talking about.

The poster above you, however, is exactly what I fear about TCM...that we're just supposed to assume that everyone is basically good and hardworking behind the counter of a TCM store. There is something overly emotional and very wrong with that post...and this kind of emotion is why so few trust TCM.

[susmariosep]

The poster above you, however, is exactly what I fear about TCM...that we're just supposed to assume that everyone is basically good and hardworking behind the counter of a TCM store. There is something overly emotional and very wrong with that post...and this kind of emotion is why so few trust TCM.

I will agree with you on that about uncritical enthusiasm.


In another scenario that is why a lot of guys got ripped off with their life's savings owing to uncritical enthusiasm for quick easy money provided you turn over to the operators of quick easy money your savings.


I will just say, that we are in fact not supposed to trust every Chinese doctor of traditional Chinese medicine, and I am not really an enthusiast in the sense of like as a believer in Mike Velarde or being a lackey of GMA or Erap.

I am a catalyst for people to look closer at traditional Chinese medicine, and I think I am succeeding because now there are people here exchanging information about herbs and that actually there is one international laboratory standardizing the industry.


Please, if I may, as we are not to be taken in easily and quickly by the traditional Chinese medicine practitioners, trade-men, and faith-inspired clients with satisfactory experience, we should also guard against a negativistic attitude toward traditional Chinese medicine.


At the end of the day, if conventional medicine cannot help you with a chronic complaint, then it is common wisdom to try traditional Chinese medicine, and anything else that is available and reasonably priced, and many others have reported lasting relief from it.

Then also if you look at the big picture, you might see that with all the advances in conventional medicine, people using exclusively conventional medicine are not more healthy and living longer years than people who do not employ exclusively conventional medicine to stay alive, enjoy good health, and live long years.

The best medicine is still the preventative kind: avoid excesses of all kinds: work, pleasure, emotional involvement, eat healthily according to the latest findings of nutrition and food science, avoid vices, and lead a traditional moral existence.


Please, again, don't get the impression that I am being confrontational with conventional medicine, opposed to its substances, its procedures, and its practitioners and proponents.

I am just asking people to share their experiences in the use of traditional Chinese medicine, that is all; just the same I confess myself to find it to be an exotic interest for my own curiosity, and admire it because it helps a lot of patients given up by conventional doctors, or who can't afford conventional medicine.


Allow me to thank you for the advice not to be overly enthusiastic as to forget my critical reservations in everything, specially in matters that have not been extensively submitted to laboratory examination and discovered to be unfailingly efficacious and harmless.


Susmariosep

[Misa Hayase]

I enjoyed reading this thread. Personally, I grew up with Chinese medicine. I didn't like taking the herbs so I was happy if they came in syrup or capsule form.

TCM is truly fascinating. Practioners of TCM can actually distinguish many different types of pulses (a "galloping" pulse, anyone?). I have accompanied my mother on several occasions to a TCM doctor. From the diagnosis with the pulse and the tongue, up to the "presciption" of herbs, being dispensed from drawers and drawers of herbs. Up to the annoying smell from the herbs being boiled in the kitchen. Presently, mom uses a special electric kettle especially for this purpose, as the water is automatically reduced to the correct amount.

As for myself, I cannot go out of town without bringing some small vials of a certain chinese med for diarrhea. It tastes horrible but for me, it is effective. That's the only Chinese med I choose over a western drug.

[susmariosep]

As for myself, I cannot go out of town without bringing some small vials of a certain chinese med for diarrhea. It tastes horrible but for me, it is effective. That's the only Chinese med I choose over a western drug. -- Misa Hayase

Is that antidiarrheal cheaper than western durgs and more effective or just as effective?

I like to know the name of that Chinese drug; is it easily found in any Chinese drugstore in Ongpin and adjacent streets?


Susmariosep

[Misa Hayase]

Is that antidiarrheal cheaper than western durgs and more effective or just as effective?

I like to know the name of that Chinese drug; is it easily found in any Chinese drugstore in Ongpin and adjacent streets?


Susmariosep

I don't know! My mother buys it by the box. ;) Do you know how sometimes you have not only diarrhea but excruciating stomachache as well? This one calms the pain too, IMO. PM'ed you the name. Not sure if it's popular.

[susmariosep]

Thanks, Hayase, for your helpful information.


I bought a box of the stomach remedy you mentioned about from a Chinese drugstore in Ongpin, there are plenty of such stores in the stretch of Ongpin.

For anyone interested to try this stomach remedy, it comes in small vials, ten to a box, 4" x 2.75" x 1.5" ( l x h x w ).

The name in English is Sze Tak Chee Chi Chung Shui.

Canvas several stores to get the best price, and look for the expiration date on the left flap of the box.

I find it from my own use to be very effective for any trouble described as stomach ache or stomach ills, and sundry gastrointestinal distresses like loose bowel movement and what is called gas pain.


Yes, it is cheaper and more effective than conventional Western medicinal formulations.



Susmariosep

[susmariosep]

I just like to hear from people who have benefited from the service of this highly sought after Chinese doctor, practicing herbal medicine for all kinds of medical complaints.

He holds clinic at Ongpin Street between Tomas Mapua and Teodora Alonso.

To know what kinds of ailments he has cured people of and what kinds he did not succeed in.

Of course people get to know much more and at an exaggerated degree his successes than his failures; still from such accounts of his successes then it is more likely that if you have an ailment where he has been very successful in, then you can take the time, trouble, and small expense (400 pesos per visit) to consult him.

This thread will serve then as a kind of listing for the kinds of ailments this Chinese doctor is good at where Western medicine of the U.S. kind has given up.


No, I am not his advertising agent, but just want to know what anyone can say to his credit and also to his discredit, for my own guidance and also for my family's.




Susmariosep