Programming vs Networking

[20"strong]

Hi, I was thinking of shifting my career to IT (I've read alot of inspiring thread here).

Economics grad ako (I love computers pero no choice nun college sayang kc *** opportunity na makapasok sa peyups) at isang customer rep ngeon sa isang call center. I have low to zero knowledge in IT so I would appreciate if you guys can help me decide.

1. What are the advantages and disadvantages?
2. Kelangan bang kumuha ng degree in IT?
a. If yes, anung course ang kelangan (Com Sci, Com Eng, IT etc)?
b. May advantage ba pag nag aral muna (promotion and salary)?
c. Marami pa rin kayang maaaplayan after 2-4 year (:) just making sure)
3. Kelangan ba ng mga special skills/certifications before makapasok sa isang magandang company?
4. At aling mundo ang mas masaya?


Share naman *** guys ng comments, suggestions and expericences nyo. Thanks in advance! *okay*

[Stridum]

If I am going to relate your course, Programming would be the best. Programming requires mathematical computation, analysis, logic, algorithm, and such just what economics and statistic does apparently. Plus since you are Economics graduate, you'll have the opportunity to master business related suites like SAP, ERP, etc. The thing is, you need to ask yourself what programming languages are in demand. But to give you a hint, it's Java, C++, C#, .Net, so you better watch what to focus on. You'll also have a chance to choose wether you want to be a Application programmer, Web Programmer, or System Programmer. Application programmers uses usually those programming languages that I have mentioned and this focuses on making application programs like for example "Microsoft Word" as an application. However Web programmers uses like server side scripting languages like PHP, JSP, ASP, etc. together with the knowledge of Cold Fusion, Apache, Active Directory for it's servers and as well as it's databases like SQL, MySQL, Oracle, etc. for databases. Just don't forget that there's a very wide variety on what to learn, the question is what to select. In the other hand, System programming is more with hardware interaction, what they use for example are Assembly language, Unix's Kernel for Unix programming, embedded C++, in this area you can program in the OS side, embedded application, robotics, hardware utilities, hardware drivers, etc. I believe that you actually don't need a degree in order for you learn these. But f course, you can take MSCS in La Salle or UP if you are after a better promotion and opportunity. But in skills, you can find short courses that offer these skills to learn. If I were in your shoes, here's what I am going to do: I'll find a job post primarily from good companies > find what they're looking for including it's sub-indicators > try to enroll that particular skills as a short course and buy a book > enter the trainee job (ex. SAP trainee, .Net trainee) > while having that job enroll MSCS every weekends > get promoted or regularized. In that way you could skip the whole BSCS session of 4 years! Plus you have your masters means you can go anywhere. You can get certification according to the languages you've learned ex. Java, Linux, etc. Programming jobs demand will never end even after 2-4 years specially that for the next 2 years a new OS will be born and technology progresses, and businesses continuously be needing software developers to maintain their operations. These concepts can be learned in master's. I hope this helps, good luck!

Wow sipag ko!

[pagie]

shifting career into programming does not require schooling, unlike networking/hardware. The easiest way to get into IT is to apply fro programmer trainee position.
For peolple who likes logic and analysis, programming is the most challenging job. If you are more of a technical type, then system ad fits for you.

[kaningbrown]

For peolple who likes logic and analysis, programming is the most challenging job.
It depends. Both fields have dead-end boring jobs and jobs that will wrack your brains out while problem solving.

[immortalscythe]

posters are focusing more on programming side. let us remind that there are readers here that need also to know the pro's and con's when it comes to networking. If there are kind people here, can somebody also post about the networking, tips on newbies and all the knowledge the newbies need to know coz as far as i know, some are having a hard time on programming and they are shifting on technical side and networking rather than being a programmer. in this case we can make this thread more livelier and this could be a very big help for all the newbies out there.

[20"strong]

^Stridum

Thanks! galing ng na share mo.. I'm clueless pag dating sa mga terms sa programming pero nagka-idea ako sa na share mo. Try ko *** mga suggestion mo. Tanong ko lang kun san pede *** mga newbie na tulad ko (SAP .NET trainee)?


^immortalscythe

Agree din ako sayo na maganda siguro makuha din natin *** mga suggestions ng mga nasa networking.

All in all salamat sa mga suggestions!!

[20"strong]

up up up

[haripoter]

both sana kaya lang programming yung 2nd course ko e hehe... so i vote for programming... maganda actually sa programming just find the right training school or institute who has company partners... para after mong magraduate sa kanila ay pwede ka marefer sa mga partners nila hehe...

anyways ngayon ko lang nalaman kung kailan graduate na ulit ako na merong companies na naghahire ng programmer trainees... na hindi kailangang computer grad ka, as long as 4yr degree course mo pede na yun... hehe... oks lan...

di ako puede sa networking... ang liit ng katawan ko para magbuhat ng mga monitor, pc, printer etc... hahah... *lol*

anyways it's your choice naman in the end...

goodluck :)

[immortalscythe]

To All Network Engineers and Certified Programmers out there, lets start making this thread more exciting.. Give us some tips on how to land on the world of programming and networking. What are the knowledge we need to acquire and where to go? something like that.. TIA :)

[jdash]

just my thoughts:

a good start if you want to be in Networking would be as a TechSupport or as a NetworkSupport in a Company.

Non-stop learning if you want to have career with it. you cannot rely on what you know for now.

as a Network support is that you'll have spare time in advancing your knowledge in a specific hardware. STABLE ka lang kapag wala problem pero once magkaroon, Gulong....kahit nasa bahay kana kung my problem parin iniisip mo parin yan o kaya di ka uuwi kapag hinde UP *** Network.(joke)

as a Tech support one thing i like there is the training you'll get. (depends in the company) Everyday you'll deal with different issues but you are limited in what you do because of the metrics. but its tough though considering its a good start. after the shift your good to go not leaving any worries behind (unless you're owning an issue of a cust)

But what's more important is you need to have actual experience in hardware not only just concept. then combine it with certifications you'll be great.

Experience is the key here before considering certifications pang pogi points. when you go look for other company.

those are just my experience for now...

[20"strong]

Share naman *** ng astig na mga schools na pwedeng pagtrainingan at companies na tumatanggap ng mga trainees. I've seen threads saying go to pointwest, azeus, SVI (heheh no idea what that means) and CPI (no idea uli) pero alin ba talaga ang pinaka astig para sa aming newbie na wala masyadong idea pagdating sa programming?

Tsaka sa panahon ngeon kelangan din competitive yung sweldo kc magugutom ka kung ndi. So can you give us a range for this position (programmer trainee)?

At in case makapasa ka sa sa training, whats the next position?

I would really appreciate if you could answer those questions. At mukang naka leave ang mga network eng ah heheh share naman *** guys.

[daniel7885]

It depends. Both fields have dead-end boring jobs and jobs that will wrack your brains out while problem solving.

Jobs that 'wrack your brains out' is never boring LOL

[puckhead]

It depends. Both fields have dead-end boring jobs and jobs that will wrack your brains out while problem solving.

Programming and networking...dead end job? What do you know about programming and networking to say it's a dead end job?

[pagie]

Share naman *** ng astig na mga schools na pwedeng pagtrainingan at companies na tumatanggap ng mga trainees. I've seen threads saying go to pointwest, azeus, SVI (heheh no idea what that means) and CPI (no idea uli) pero alin ba talaga ang pinaka astig para sa aming newbie na wala masyadong idea pagdating sa programming?

Tsaka sa panahon ngeon kelangan din competitive yung sweldo kc magugutom ka kung ndi. So can you give us a range for this position (programmer trainee)?

At in case makapasa ka sa sa training, whats the next position?

I would really appreciate if you could answer those questions. At mukang naka leave ang mga network eng ah heheh share naman *** guys.


Tanog ka ng tanong eh hindi ka nagbabasa. Di mo alam SVI at CPI? nasa page 1 ang thread di mo nabasa? Gusto mo mag-work sa IT pero ayaw m0 ng bond.. kami rin ayaw namin pero yun ang trend! Kung gusto mo magka-career mag-invest ka.
Range ng salary? Pati ba naman yan di mo nabasa dito sa pex?

[immortalscythe]

^ hala kumukulo na dugo ni pagie.. hehe easy lang :D

jdash:
at first, i also consider being a tech support on a call center but of course you need the actual experience of it. ive been in programming, but i think im having a hard time learning it. during my training, when my shift ends, i cant avoid holding my head because it was aching due to thinking too much, i guess networking was not that hard to learn compare to programming. what do you think guys?

[puckhead]

If you are leaning towards networking, I personally believe that It is the most exciting of all IT fields (hehe bias). Learning never stops when you are in networking and there are lots of cool options for you, you can take on different specializations like
- switching and routing - *ccna, ccnp, ccie
- network security - *ccna-security, ccsp, ccie-security
- voice (voip) - * ccna-voice
- wireless - *ccna-wireless
And for the person who said that networking is a dead end job, put your money where your mouth is because you have no god damn idea...you can start from a support position, become a jr engineer, sr engineer, jr network admin, sr network admin, security consultant, network consultant, network supervisor, network manager...the list goes on and on and on..it's really hard to figure out where the dead end is...

[bee_tin]

hey puckhead your a die-hard cisco fan ah... = ) sabagay, sila lang naman *** kinda active (and challenging compared to 3com..namen!) in terms of certifications R&D, etc.

[20"strong]

^pagie
Ui galit na...Cool tau lahat dito. Bago lang ako sa pex kaya ndi ko pa nabasa lahat ng mga thread at hindi ko nga nabasa *** thread na sinasabi mo until now (after mo magalit hinanap ko heheh) Mukang Computer Professionals Inc (CPI) and maganda pero sabi ng karamihan go for Pointwest.

Sa sweldo may nabasa ata ako na mga 20k-15k. (ok tanong na naman ay wag na nga lang) Pashare nalang po ng mga opinion nyo if alin ang mas ok.

^puckhead
Mukang maganda yang network security, parang sa die hard 4.0 lang ba yan?

[20"strong]

die hard nga late ang post ko heheh... pero astig *** network security kung ganun.

[pagie]

^pagie
Ui galit na...Cool tau lahat dito. Bago lang ako sa pex kaya ndi ko pa nabasa lahat ng mga thread at hindi ko nga nabasa *** thread na sinasabi mo until now (after mo magalit hinanap ko heheh) Mukang Computer Professionals Inc (CPI) and maganda pero sabi ng karamihan go for Pointwest.

Sa sweldo may nabasa ata ako na mga 20k-15k. (ok tanong na naman ay wag na nga lang) Pashare nalang po ng mga opinion nyo if alin ang mas ok.

^puckhead
Mukang maganda yang network security, parang sa die hard 4.0 lang ba yan?

Hindi naman katwiran yung bago lang, pwede naman mag-search. Nabasa ko kasi mga post mo dito at halatang di ka muna naghanap, basta ka lang nag-post para makakuha agad ng sagot at parang di mo alam ang rule sa forum.

Ngayon nagtatanong ka kung alin mas OK, eh sabi mo nabasa mo na.:grrr:

enwei, freshgrad ka di ba? wag ka maghanap ng malaking sweldo, in two years time kung OK ang background mo ikaw na magde-demand ng salary na gusto mo. At wag ka mag-inarte sa bond, 2years lang yan, at kung lilipat ka ng work ang kadalasang hinahanp ay 2years experiance. So bat ka aayaw sa bond kung nagi-invest ka sa career mo?

heto ang tip, mga programming languages na malaki ang sweldo.(kung experienced ka na).

Sweldo ito sa Pinas

SAP - 100K-200K
RPG/AS400 - 70-130K
Java - 40-90K
Oracle - 40-90K

[immortalscythe]

^ ngayon ko lang nalaman mas malaki pa pala sahod ng RPG/AS400 kesa sa JAVA, kala ko kasi dati mas malaki sahod ng java based on other thread thread. OK pala mag train sa RADIX kasi RPG/AS400 at may nagsabi na tlagang maganda daw ang training ng RADIX. mga thread ng radix dito, puro mgaganda ang comments, ang downside "daw" nila eh yung sahod, which is not that important for fresh grad since natural na lalaki ang sahodmo as long as humahaba ang years ng experience mo.

@pagie

AFAIK, cobol daw is a high paying job din? what do you think? since napaglumaan na daw ng panahon ang malulupet na programmer ng COBOL lalo na sa ibang bansa.

@puckhead
nice one. you gave us an idea of what would be the career sa networking.

keep the posts flow.. sana madami makijoin satin dito

[pagie]

Cobol? Depende sa company, pero kadalasan kagaya lang siya ng java. Pero kung alam mo kung san ka papasok, at dahil iilan na lang nagco-cobol, ang sweldo ay kagaya ng RPG.

Kung me panahon pa sana ako mag-shift, SAP ang challenging. Pero mahirap na bitiwan ang oracle...

[immortalscythe]

^ haha.. mas maganda na nga katayuan mo sa oracle eh, at least di sya kasing dami tulad ng java programmers dba? grabe ang SAP, laki sahod, oh well multi national company lang kc gumagamit like PNG, san miguel, etc.. kaso mahal din ng bayad. pero why dont you try KAISA? d naman mawawala knowledge mo sa oracle eh, as a matter of fact madadagdagan pa dahil sa SAP. SG na yan pagie ehehe

[Stridum]

Conclusion: Aim for SAP.

@pagie, I am also interested in learning Oracle, at what company did you start training or working?

[pagie]

^^yes, hindi mawawala ang knowledge sa oracle pero half or your earnings ang mawawala, hindi ko na kakayanin mag-adjust pabalik sa gastusin.:) Ayoko naman mag-SG o kahit saang bansa. Mahal ko ang Pilipinas sa malalim na kahulugan nito. :)

^Read CPI and SVI thread.

[AnneNonymous]

^ what about career as a microsoft software engineer? .net at embedded systems diba yun?

I just want to know kung anong software development or programming language ang mae-experience ng microsoft software engineer...

[sandino]

the only thing i like being into networking, specifically being in a Network Operations Center for big corporate clients is that I dont really need to bring my work home... :D everyday is a brand new day... stress is high but as soon as your time ends... its all over...

not like when i was still doing freelance programming...

to the threadstarter: baliktad tayo... im into IT now... but i think i wanna be in business management... :D i took up my MBA which has absolutely nothing to do with WTF im doing right now...

it would have been better if i used the 3 years studying or taking up networking certs but instead i took up MBA coz i like it... its a breather to what im doing... its something different... i have no regrets... :D

[dec3]

Im planning also to shift to programming. Im curently working in a bpo here in the phil and im getting bored. I can finish my daily tasks at work in half the time, so you see, I have a lot of free time during office hours.

I'm currently reading an introductory book in C++ and enjoying it. If I study this language for 1 year, do you think I'll have a chance to pass an exam for a C++ developer position in major companies here? How much C++ do I need to learn before I could land a developer job? I dont wanna be a trainee and be tied to a bond after self studying for 1 year.

My undergrad course isnt comp sci or comp eng'g or anything related to IT. Im also planning to take a diploma course in CS (or MSCS if approved) in UP online universtity in june but I would like to already have a programming job while taking this course. I'll be 31 yrs old by then. You think this is a good plan, or am I
just out of my mind? Any advice will be appreciated.

[20"strong]

^pagie

Heheh aus ka, nakita ko *** ibang mga thread at madalas mu pala gawin to. Pede ka ng moderator heheh peace

Thanks pala sa info, malaki pala ang sweldo sa sap tama pala ang sabi ni stridum. Pero lam kong msa malaking responsibilidad yun. Pagtutuonan ko ng panahon un at try ko mag search sa net ng mga sources before ako mag apply.

Nga pala hindi ko makita *** mahabang thead sa kaisa na nabanggit mu sa ibang thread, is it under another title?

Salamat uli sa mga info guys!

[pagie]

^ it took me less than 5seconds to find it.
http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343648
http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-293607.html

unfortunately, wala masyadong info.

eto yung TSFI na hanap mo rin.
http://zefiris.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?p=28366028

..nga pala, hindi ang responsibilities ang factor kung bakit mas malaki ang salary ng mga SAP programmer. scarcity po. konti lang kase SAP programmer sa ngayon at malaki ang demand.

dec3:
Hindi knowledge ang hanap ng employer ngayon kundi actual experience. yun ang alam ko. :)

[zerglings]

Sure you don't bring your work at home when you are in the NOC. That's because that's the lowest level in the networking field. Even though that is the lowest, that's where you'll learn a lot. However, if you're a Network Admin or Network Engineer then you'll be in a rotational on-call schedule (it depends if you are not the department! - very common with Network Admins).

Yes, the learning never stops in IT, in general. Not just in IT-Network field. That is especially true when you enter the certification madness! Hah. With Cisco certifications, you'll have to renew them every 3 years! Money making b@stards! Hah.

CCNA - CCNP - CCIE R&S (Routing and Switching)
CCNA - CCNA Security - CCSP - CCIE Security (That's not including CISSP track)
CCNA - CCNA Voice - CCVP - CCIE Voice (That's not including Avaya VoIP)
CCNA & CCDA - CCDP - CCDE (Network Design)
CCNA - CCIP - CCIE Service Provider

If I am not mistaken, every CCIE lab exams are $1400. Air fare, hotel and food are not included if you live in a country that doesn't have an authorized testing center for the CCIE labs only. The CCIE written are $300, if I am not mistaken. Any other exams are $150 (of course except for the composite exams, which are $300).

That's only Cisco. If the company supports Juniper routers and switches then you'll need to learn the commands too! Hah.

I'd say go with Networking! Hah. Bias ako kasi IT-Network rin ako eh. Haha.

[immortalscythe]

nabasa ko dati yung about sa TSFI, nagpasa ako dati ng resume dun kaso d ako natawagan, anyone knows DIMEXSOFT? tama ba *** name, they are also searching for SAP Trainee, di ko lang alam kung active pa din sila hanggang ngayon..

[zerglings]

^ ngayon ko lang nalaman mas malaki pa pala sahod ng RPG/AS400 kesa sa JAVA, kala ko kasi dati mas malaki sahod ng java based on other thread thread. OK pala mag train sa RADIX kasi RPG/AS400 at may nagsabi na tlagang maganda daw ang training ng RADIX. mga thread ng radix dito, puro mgaganda ang comments, ang downside "daw" nila eh yung sahod, which is not that important for fresh grad since natural na lalaki ang sahodmo as long as humahaba ang years ng experience mo.


uy AS/400. hehe. may alam kong mga commands don! hahaha. naghandle ako ng AS/400 dati pero limited lang commands na alam ko. para lang maayos ko yung problem. usually, tumatawag kami ng ibang group na AS/400 lang ang ginagawa nila. hehehe.

eto mga commands na natatandaan ko:

wrkcfgsts *ctl
endsbs *all *immed
pwrdwnsys *immed
call qcmd
dsptap tap01
wrksbsjob
wrkactjob
wrkmsg

and etc...

[20"strong]

Thanks Pagie, nakita ko na yung mga thread na yan at tulad ng sinabi mo wala masyadong info dun. Akala ko you were referring to another thread. I'm really interested on the job and would like to learn more about it and where to get the best training. At supply and demand pala ang dahilan ng mataas na sweldo ng mga SAP programmer. Again thanks for the info.

[sandino]

Sure you don't bring your work at home when you are in the NOC. That's because that's the lowest level in the networking field. Even though that is the lowest, that's where you'll learn a lot. However, if you're a Network Admin or Network Engineer then you'll be in a rotational on-call schedule (it depends if you are not the department! - very common with Network Admins).



WOW naman... i agree it's the NOC environment where you will learn the most... but id like to disagree pa rin... it's not the lowest in the networking field...if you are a network admin, your sole concern is the network infrastructure of the company you work for... being in a NOC, it's not just one company but a lot... role and responsibility maybe different but it's still the same 7 layers of the OSI model you are dealing with...

not unless you are a NOC that handles only layer 1... not really a problem, but it has to start somewhere...

[puckhead]

^^^to say that you will deal with the whole 7 layers of the OSI layer can become an overstatement, if you are a network engineer dealing with routing, switching the focus is really on the lower 4 layers.

[zerglings]

depende sa company but most of the network admins are responsible for anything network related issues.. like novell servers, switches, routers, and etc.. again, depende sa company... NOC up to layer 7? hmmm, parang hindi ako sangayon sa sinsasabi mo.. up to layer 7 are network analysts jobs...

[immortalscythe]

Im planning also to shift to programming. Im curently working in a bpo here in the phil and im getting bored. I can finish my daily tasks at work in half the time, so you see, I have a lot of free time during office hours.

I'm currently reading an introductory book in C++ and enjoying it. If I study this language for 1 year, do you think I'll have a chance to pass an exam for a C++ developer position in major companies here? How much C++ do I need to learn before I could land a developer job? I dont wanna be a trainee and be tied to a bond after self studying for 1 year.

My undergrad course isnt comp sci or comp eng'g or anything related to IT. Im also planning to take a diploma course in CS (or MSCS if approved) in UP online universtity in june but I would like to already have a programming job while taking this course. I'll be 31 yrs old by then. You think this is a good plan, or am I
just out of my mind? Any advice will be appreciated.

Ive read the UPOU requirements for MSCS, and one of it is the degree and also the 2.5 GWA for UP students and 2.25 for other schools, also you need to have at least 2yrs experience in IT related job before you qualify for MSCS. They are encouraging applicants who didnt reached the requirements to took first the DIPLOMA course before the Masteral.

back to your question about C++, if you have enough experience, then you dont need to become a trainee and be bonded for 2 yrs. but if you dont have enough experience and your knowledge is theoretical only, you should still consider as trainee since you dont have experience working in the field. If you can make yourself proficient in C++, I may suggest you take the GAME PROGRAMMING, there are lot of companies seeking for talented C++ Programmers for game developing. Although I dont know what is the path when you decided to take the Game Programming.

Anybody knows about the Game programming also? can someone share it to us? TIA

[dec3]

^^thanks for the info. just read the requirements in upou. i'll be taking the diploma course.

i'm not looking into game programming for now. to be a game developer requires above-average mathematical abilty. this field isnt for mere mortals..:)

if i would apply as a trainee after a year of studying, i'll probably be grouped together with other career shifters with little or no programming experience at all. by that time, i would know way more c++ than them. i'll be able to handle more complex problems than these other trainees. going back to the basics would be a waste of time, not just for me but the company as well.

is there any company who would let anyone take the exam for developers even if one's course isnt comp sci? i'm not optimistic in passing it, but i guess 1 year of studying might be enough. :)

or, is there a company that offers a position which is intermediate between a beginner/trainee and a full-pledged developer?

[immortalscythe]

^ive heard one of them is CPI, they accept trainees although they are not an IT grad, ive heard that there are nursing and other non it grad. just pass the exam and interviews.

try to navigate this forum, there are lot of companies here who offer programmer trainees.

[mae-mae]

puckhead has got a point... networking is not a dead end...

imagine... how are you going to implement everything you programmed if there's no network?

think think think..

(peace)

[mae-mae]

To whoever asked about Dimexsoft:

There's a trainee position but I think you also have to pay a portion in the whole training fee.

[immortalscythe]

^ oh i see, i thought it was a company like earning while you're learning.. it is like a phoenix knowledge institute pala...